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2014-02-20 05:35 4587237 Anonymous (Ggas_human_soc.jpg 205x300 50kB)
Hello, How do we feel about Guns, Germs and Steel?
0 min later 4587241 Anonymous
>>4587237
thread hidden.
3 min later 4587253 Anonymous
>>4587237
/pol/ hates it and won't stop talking about how much they hate it. You know this.
7 min later 4587268 Anonymous (curiousdognighttime.jpg 280x262 12kB)
>>4587253
I did not know that.
Picked it out of a book of box my mother was going to toss. Now i'm one chapter in, reading for leisure in between reading Rawls for college.
>I study political science and never browse /pol
Other opinions?
>Pol hates it, noted.
11 min later 4587277 Anonymous (olivia-wilde-gq1.gif 300x347 2034kB)
>>4587241
what?
22 min later 4587304 Muck Bulligan (Screen Shot 2014-02-19 at 1.49.56 AM.png 354x54 8kB)
>>4587268
>Other opinions?
none that are worthwhile. it's a hunk of pop-history garbage.
24 min later 4587310 Anonymous (Carnage and Culture.jpg 331x476 69kB)
What about pic related?
34 min later 4587350 Anonymous
>>4587304
>>Pol hates it, noted.
Pretty much this. Regardless of what /pol/ says about it, it is basically the left-wing equivalent of something that /pol/ would put out.
36 min later 4587357 Anonymous
>>4587350
woops, that green-text shouldn't be there.
45 min later 4587384 Anonymous
>>4587237
If you're looking for a scientifically sound book on this topic, that isn't riddled with rhetoric like GG&S, you should look up 'The 10,000 Year Explosion'.
AMZN link: http://www.amazon.com/The-000-Year- Explosion-Civilization/dp/046502042 9
46 min later 4587390 Anonymous
Jared Diamond, who is not actually an anthropologist, missed a chance to make a legitimate contribution to anthropology (in the form of "hey, you all should pay more attention to the effects of environment and available resources") because he'd rather overstate his case and sell an oversimplified book that says "it's ALL environment and natural resources" to people who know even less about anthropology than he does.
He spent time with a tribe and then wrote a book about it, and after reading said book the tribe's leaders formally requested an apology for how he misrepresented them.
47 min later 4587393 Anonymous
>>4587350
>left-wing
But he's all about that "third world countries need our white dick" capitalist imperialism in the guise of help.
52 min later 4587404 Muck Bulligan (22949385878971.jpg 1280x1742 528kB)
>>4587393
you think the american left isn't imperialist? woah, nelly.
59 min later 4587419 Anonymous
>>4587304
>pop-history garbage.
As far as I can tell this translates into two things.
A. It's popular and therefore I hate it. Historians resent Jared Diamond because he's now a rockstar of history and he's not even a trained historian. Pseudo-intellectual hipsters hate it because it's last decades news and now every Joe Shmoe has read it and thinks there's something elucidating about the book, so naturally they assume they come off as more intelligent by declaring it too "plebeian" for their taste.
B. It's too scientific. Yeah, really. Apparently a lot of people resent the implied "geographic determinism" that Diamond, a geographer, brings to the book because muh free will, muh great men, muh alternative history.
1 hours later 4587423 Anonymous
>>4587404
Oh, I thought you meant actual leftism.
1 hours later 4587428 Anonymous
>>4587419
see
>>4587390
1 hours later 4587437 Anonymous
>>4587268
Tries too hard to paint white men as the source of every evil, but has some valid points
1 hours later 4587439 Anonymous
>>4587404
>confusing the Democratic Party with the left in America
GEE I CAN SEE SOMEONE CAN'T SEE THROUGH THE PROPAGANDA SYSTEM
1 hours later 4587440 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
>>4587393
>>4587404
In the corporate world center-left is all we're allowed to know
1 hours later 4587459 Anonymous
It's a good book.
Most of the conclusions are well established. Generally I've found criticisms tend to focus on some very specific aspect that is taken out of context, or be overly general. Most of them have not read the book, and either hate it because it's popular or because it doesn't fit in with their /pol/ worldview.
>>4587350
An example of someone who has clearly never read it.
1 hours later 4587462 Reality Check
>>4587459
This is the most honest answer in the thread so far.
1 hours later 4587493 Anonymous (cuteguys.jpg 378x378 14kB)
>>4587437
>Tries too hard to paint white men as the source of every evil
>Imply white men are not the source of every evil
1 hours later 4587501 Anonymous
>>4587393
>But he's all about that "third world countries need our white dick" capitalist imperialism in the guise of help.
B-but he says the opposite.
You wouldn't just post lies on the internet would you??
1 hours later 4587502 Anonymous (ecstasy.gif 300x249 53kB)
>>4587493
But anon, that's incorrect
1 hours later 4587503 Anonymous
>>4587390
>"it's ALL environment and natural resources"
Where does he say that?
> the tribe's leaders formally requested an apology for how he misrepresented them.
Sauce
1 hours later 4587507 Anonymous
>>4587437
>Tries too hard to paint white men as the source of every evil
Where does he say that?
2 hours later 4587545 Anonymous
I took two classes with Prof. Diamond during my time at UCLA. The guy is full of it.
2 hours later 4587546 Anonymous
>>4587502
pls explain why
not even tricking, just curious
2 hours later 4587573 Canadian Expat
>>4587545
> I took two classes with Prof. Diamond during my time at UCLA. He gave me a C. I will hate him for the rest of my life. The guy is full of it.
I believe you anon
2 hours later 4587585 Anonymous
i appreciate his idea of trying to emphasize geographical and biological factors as a sort of environmental determinism, but he gets so many minor facts wrong that its easy to cite them against him
try mcmichael's development and social change or adas' machines as the measure of men
2 hours later 4587586 Anonymous
Utter shit from a literary standpoint. Content-wise, it makes some good points.
5 hours later 4587761 Anonymous
Read it a couple years back during an 8 hour lay-over at an airport, from what I remember it was pretty decent. Makes some interesting points about geographic determinism and all that shit. Obviously if you're going to take it as the whole truth on the matter and wip it out at parties you shouldn't read it, but if not its a pretty fun interesting book.
Actually that's gotten me thinking, does /lit/ have a chart for good books you can read if you want to contribute to fun conversations at diner parties? If not we should make one
5 hours later 4587771 Anonymous
>>4587761
>geographic determinism
All it takes is a single black swan observation to denounce his entire arguments of which there are many black swans which could be produced for every one of his conclusions and posits.
5 hours later 4587774 Anonymous
>>4587771
>not fun at parties
5 hours later 4587793 Anonymous (1354163202921.jpg 474x595 29kB)
>>4587761
op here
>does /lit/ have a chart for good books you can read if you want to contribute to fun conversations at diner parties? If not we should make one
>this
Thanks for all the ideas all, have some dj detweiler
https://soundcloud.com/d-j-detweile r
6 hours later 4587854 Anonymous (1384313614540.jpg 1551x805 264kB)
>>4587237
ah heres that pic.
i own the book and i enjoyed reading it. however, i disagree with its overall conclusion. the book basically claims that europe came to dominate the world exclusively because of its environment. he even goes so far as to claim that tribal people from new guinea are more intelligent than europeans (and therefore that eurpoe has succeeded despite this lack of smarts because of its environment). there is another book called "the 10,000 year explosion" which i am reading now that takes the view that the early start that some areas got to civilization was critical in changing the evolutionary pressures for the entire population. this caused radically different trait selection.
some traits that would be benefital in a tribal environment, like aggression would become a huge disadvantage in a city.
anyway i could wirte more but fuck you, read it.
11 hours later 4588361 Anonymous
>>4587854
go read The Ethnic Phenomenon when you're done with that plebeian stuff
11 hours later 4588391 Anonymous
Oh look it's this thread again
12 hours later 4588433 Anonymous
>>4587793
>/mu/ idiot wanting charts
How shocking
12 hours later 4588439 Anonymous
>>4587854
>The Alps
>Dividing Europe and Asia
wot
14 hours later 4588781 Anonymous
>>4587404
America doesn't have a serious left wing, we have far right, moderate right, and right-leaning centrist factions.
15 hours later 4588836 Anonymous
>>4587503
>>4587507
>no responses
Yep.
15 hours later 4588850 Anonymous
>>4587503
>>4587507
>>4588836
I'm guessing you're the same guy from the lasts threads who always said "He didn't say that literally, he doesn't mean that, source" even when people linked you to articles where he said the exact thing they pointed to.
15 hours later 4588865 Anonymous
>>4587854
Literally ever counter in the image is just made up. No significant cultural exchanges between Europe, Asia, and the Middle-east? How can someone be so wrong? And I love the bit that Diamond was wrong to say the Americas had less domesticatable animals than Europe because... they had llamas. That and the (intentional, no doubt) conflation between domestication and training with regard to Zebras and other African animals. And then there's the latent "scientific" racism of the comment. Not even once.
>Captcha: leave rvrytes
15 hours later 4588869 Anonymous
>>4588850
No, but I'd like to see these sources.
16 hours later 4589138 Anonymous
>>4587237
It's good. Some parts of oversimplified for ease of understanding, but it makes good points and serves as a good summary of human history altogether. Also surprisingly enjoyable.
>>4587854
Fucking /pol/. Whoever wrote that is a good writer but didn't disprove anything in the book, just took a few lines out of context and made shit up.
His point for number 6, especially. In North America, the first European settlers in the 15th century caused horrible horrible plagues for the natives. And equating malaria to smallpox is just stupid.
I wonder if he even read the book, seeing as his counter-argument for the 4th point (why didn't the Europeans hunt their animals to extinction?) is brought up and answered in the book itself.
16 hours later 4589149 Anonymous
>>4589138
*some parts ARE oversimplified
16 hours later 4589169 Anonymous
>>4587390
>"it's ALL environment and natural resources"
He doesn't say that. Did you read where he offers an explanation for why Europe colonized America before China did? Protip: it's not environmental.
16 hours later 4589172 Anonymous
>>4589138
That "/pol/ post" is a stolen Amazon review.
17 hours later 4589191 Anonymous
>>4588865
lmao yeah the llamas thing made be bust out a hearty gut laugh.
17 hours later 4589200 Anonymous
>>4588865
Llamas are overtly addressed in the book anyhow.
17 hours later 4589203 Anonymous
>>4589200
Also, domestication vs. taming are generally the terms used, also the the terms used in the book in relation to zebras.
17 hours later 4589227 Anonymous (Troll Diamond.jpg 625x341 39kB)
It's pop-science but well written, fun to read, and make some good if grossly exaggerated points.
Most importantly quoting it is the best way to troll your academic friends in anthropology and the like since Jared Diamond is incredibly hated by professionals in the field for, well, not being one himself. Most of the criticism is unwarranted since Jared Diamond made it very clear that his goals were not scientific but political.
Also /pol/ hates it but they take it way too seriously.
17 hours later 4589232 Anonymous
>>4589172
I just assumed it was /pol/, but now at least the fact that it was well written makes sense
22 hours later 4590009 Anonymous
>>4587503
Sorry, I was away.
Here's the sauce:
http://www.survivalinternational.or g/news/8958
22 hours later 4590017 Anonymous
>>4590009
It's not Guns, Germs, and Steel they want an apology for, tho, which also mentions them profusely.
23 hours later 4590241 Anonymous
>>4590017
Reread the post that said they wanted an apology. I said he wrote "a book about it," not that it was the same one.
23 hours later 4590244 Anonymous
>>4587501
Read The World Until Yesterday. He heavily implies exactly what I said. And read the article mentioned here: >>4590009
24 hours later 4590263 Anonymous
>>4587393
but they do need our white dick.
or rather, over colonialism would be an improvement over the current system of financial imperialism/debt peonage.
24 hours later 4590270 Anonymous
>>4590263
The financial imperialism/debt peonage is a result of foreign intervention.
What they need is for everyone to fuck off.
25 hours later 4590398 Anonymous
>>4587761
I once whipped it out at a party.
I was thoroughly humiliated by an Asian chick, with the implication that I was racist.
Never read a non-fiction book since.
26 hours later 4590570 Anonymous
>>4590398
Are you talking about "Guns, Germs, And Steel" or your penis?
26 hours later 4590580 Anonymous
>>4590398
>I was humiliated by a chick
you are a social retard
27 hours later 4590615 Anonymous
I read the first half, got the jist of it and picked up A Primate's Memoir - which is much more entertaining.
27 hours later 4590641 Anonymous
>>4590635
>>>/pol/
37 hours later 4591713 Anonymous
>>4589138
You have a yellow belly.
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