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2014-07-19 01:13 3015150 Anonymous (1401135851991.jpg 550x550 80kB)
If a married man with kids decides to transition into a woman, how do you think the wife should react? Would you blame her if she wanted a divorce? What kind of impact will his transition have on the kids?

9 min later 3015190 Anonymous
>>3015150 I wouldn't blame her. It's been said many, many times on this board and outside it that hormones make your mind go woo-boo and change your personality. You wouldn't be the person she loved. If you leave without telling the kids, they may hate you, but if you stay and transition around them... Well... Can't say I ever heard of something like that happening, probably better to just leave, though.

13 min later 3015207 Anonymous
>>3015150 It's much better to leave and have the mother explain to them that their father cheated or left or whatever the fuck else. That way they have someone to blame rather than needing to deal with gender and have them get mentally fucked. The man also gets to relieve himself of those stresses too. so the wife is going to react wildly (as she should), and she's probably going to want a divorce eventually. Transitioning isn't just snapping your fingers and bam, new gender.

34 min later 3015315 Anonymous
>>3015190 >>3015207 So it seems like the better solution would be divorce and telling the kids something else? I suppose that's a really difficult issue. Who knows what a court would decide in terms of custody.

36 min later 3015322 Anonymous
>>3015150 >her >she triggered hard thanks OP

44 min later 3015346 Anonymous
It's sad that there's such immense and pointless stigma surrounding transition. It's to the point that people literally recommend that a parent teach their children to hate the other parent for getting treatment for a diagnosed medical issue.

46 min later 3015351 Anonymous
>>3015322 It's interesting how no trans people on this site have ever acted like this, and the people who come here to pretend they're trans always stick out like sore thumbs.

49 min later 3015360 Anonymous
>>3015150 If she took the vow "until death do us part" or "for as long as we both shall live" and took it seriously the part that says "let not man destroy what God has built" or that whole "for better or worse, sickness and in health, forsaking all others" tidbit, then she should not seek divorce.

51 min later 3015364 Anonymous
>>3015360 >implying anyone follows that

55 min later 3015377 Anonymous
>>3015360 She took that vow on the understanding that the man she was vowing to be with was "XY and Z". It's not any different than if your partner cheats on you - you're agreeing to be with one another under a set of conditions. Presumably one of those conditions would actually mean being who they say they are.

1 hours later 3015437 Anonymous
>>3015377 >being diagnosed with gender dysphoria is the same as cheating lol no. Your logic is hilariously bad.

2 hours later 3015707 Anonymous
>>3015437 If she didn't know about his dysphoria at all, then I don't know.

2 hours later 3015714 Anonymous
This doesn't even have to be theoretical. My cousin has two kids, transitioned to become a woman. Wife divorced her, then later she got thrown off the police force (But not oppression, she's a fucking idiot -- he took topless pictures of himself after boob jobfor Craigslist hook ups in his uniform with his fucking badge and ID visible, disgraced the force). It's been about a decade, lives in Florida now, entire family is embarrassed to be associated with her, kids haven't spoken with her since turning 18, and have actually moved and gone in to hiding, basically, to make SURE she doesn't try to contact them.

2 hours later 3015723 Anonymous
>>3015360 jesus is far far away from hons

2 hours later 3015744 Anonymous
>>3015707 So, if someone gets married and develops cancer, then they should get divorced because an illness manifested itself later in life? What about Alzheimer's?

2 hours later 3015746 Anonymous
>>3015744 But being trans doesn't just develop. According to most people they are born trans.

2 hours later 3015758 Anonymous
>>3015714 Wait was this person on Dr. Phil? i doubt it but somewhat similar story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LA qMXVsWoI

2 hours later 3015768 Anonymous
>>3015746 People with Major Depressive Disorder are born with it, but it often doesn't manifest until the person is in their mid-30s. People who develop cancer are born with it, but it needs a lifetime of catalysts to mutate. People who develop Alzheimer's are born with it, but ... well you get the idea.

3 hours later 3015876 Anonymous
>>3015768 But people don't just wake up one day with gender dysphoria. It's different in that cancer develops over time, but isnt transsexualism supposed to be there from the start? It's hard to believe someone could have no idea they wanted to be a woman and one day suddenly realise it

3 hours later 3015897 Anonymous
>>3015150 How do I think the wife would react? What a stupid thing to say, as if there could possibly a general reaction to that. people are different, different reactions.

4 hours later 3016043 Anonymous
>>3015876 Sometimes people live in denial, hoping for some sense of normalcy, and a boiling point gets reached where they just can't take it anymore. Same thing happens to spree killers, actually. Living in denial, no access to therapy or medications, one day snaps ...

4 hours later 3016057 Anonymous
>>3016043 Still their fault for not saying anything before marriage.

4 hours later 3016078 Anonymous
>>3016057 Yeah, but marriage isn't a zero sum deal. Everyone changes. You get your wife pregnant and she goes through 9 months of hormonal hell from which she never fully recovers. She is a changed woman. Men get that middle age spread, sometimes go bald, eyesight goes bad. Maybe not as much stamina in bed. Everyone wrinkles, ages, gets sick. If you marry someone without realizing that someday you will have to bury this person, then you are the idiot.

4 hours later 3016089 Anonymous
>>3016057 People change. This always happens no matter what. If you say "I won't divorce you unless something changes" then you aren't taking marriage very seriously.

4 hours later 3016091 Anonymous
>>3016078 >>3016089 People change slightly, they don't change completely.

4 hours later 3016105 Anonymous
>>3015351 It's not even the smart way to go about it. Familiarity with the subject would make them less likely to overreact, and someone close being trans would also make it harder for them to hate trans people. If transphobia becomes less frequent, transwomen who try to marry and suppress their transness also become less frequent, as they'd have less reason to hide and repress who they are. You'd think these women actually want others to go through what they did.

4 hours later 3016115 Anonymous
>>3016091 An MtF isn't a complete change either. It's the same person. Same goals, same dreams, same desires. Same hobbies, same pleasures, same heartaches. Bob doesn't become Brenda. Bob was always Brenda.

4 hours later 3016120 Anonymous
>>3016089 But isn't the fact that they are trans a lifelong fact? They didn't "change" into being trans, they always were trans.

4 hours later 3016180 Anonymous
>>3016115 they fell in love with a man, or what they thought was a man. I wouldn't stay wit my partner if they turned out to be MtF

5 hours later 3016187 Anonymous
>>3016115 >Same goals, same dreams, same desires. Same hobbies, same pleasures, same heartaches. No, no, no, no, no and no, none of those remain the same. >An MtF isn't a complete change either. Just because their transitions are usually really bad doesn't mean they don't change.

5 hours later 3016190 Anonymous
>>3015150 I remember seeing that shit on dr phil and the daughters called their father selfish and shit for doing it. >>3015190 fuck it, they need to know the truth.

5 hours later 3016194 Anonymous
>>3015150 I have been able to find absolutely nothing about how kids would react to a transitioning parent if the mother is supportive and all. All I've been able to find is a study made by people with an anti-trans biased that found a mild increase in depression, but no worsening educational outcomes in the child, but I do not know if that controlled for the mother being on-board/supportive about things. I would say the best thing for a mother to do, is that if she finds herself sexually incompatible, it's important to still support her (former) spouse, even through divorce; help work the children through accepting who they've known as their father, being a trans mother. Keep the her former 'husband' involved in the kids lives, try to keep things positive as much as possible. I'm not really seeing how kids would have a negative reaction to it unless their mother poisoned them against it or they grew up in a particularly homophobic culture.

5 hours later 3016197 Anonymous
>>3016120 >>3016180 >>3016187 Well, all I can say at this point is: don't get married. You couldn't handle it.

5 hours later 3016242 Anonymous
>>3016197 Its not like marriage is any different than a random long term relationship.... you silly people with your artificial boundaries.

5 hours later 3016266 Anonymous
>>3015758 Ugh this shit is awful and so one sided. Like yeah she could have handled her transition better but they aren't respecting her identity at all, Dr. Phil isn't even trying to get the daughters to work through accepting that their father is a trans woman and that doesn't change the person she is inside.

11 hours later 3017097 Anonymous
>>3015360 Maybe if the husband had told the wife BEFORE they got married, otherwise, I wouldn't blame the wife at all. You don't just wake up with gender dysphoria one day, which mean hubby wasn't being honest.

11 hours later 3017100 Anonymous
>>3015744 You are retarded. I bet you are the tumblr type that says straight men aren't allowed to turn away a MtF that misrepresented themselves. The husband is CHANGING genders. I am assuming the wife isn't a lesbian because she married a man.

11 hours later 3017109 Anonymous
>>3016266 Did you know: Dr. Phil IS actually a real Dr., but he "was" a heart surgeon. Oprah had him do Dr. segments on her show. At first they were medical related, but, over time, the housewives wanted less medical health information and more psychological health information. Fast forward to today and you have a heart surgeon pretending to be a therapist. Thanks American housewives.

11 hours later 3017122 Anonymous
>>3016187 >No, no, no, no, no and no, none of those remain the same. Stop projecting, hon

11 hours later 3017125 Anonymous
>>3017100 That still doesn't make having gender dysphoria equivalent to cheating on your spouse you idiot. That's why you needed to hide your moronic statement behind a strawman argument.

12 hours later 3017128 Anonymous
It's perfectly okay for the wife to divorce. The vast majority of transwomen in marriages accept this. You can't force someone to love someone of another gender who's incapable of it.

12 hours later 3017133 Anonymous
>>3017128 The downside is that it's usually horribly messy and the wife demonizes the trans woman for having medical issues. These people usually kill themselves after being barred from seeing their children by spiteful exes who feel unjustifiably betrayed. MtFs get all of the negatives of being a man, and all of the negatives of being a woman.

12 hours later 3017148 Anonymous
>>3017125 I am not the anon who equated gender dysphoria to cheating. I imagine there is a ton of samefagging on a board as slow as this, but not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person. Defend your stance without pointing out opposition's faulty arguments please. If the wife had no idea at all of the husband's dysphoria before the marriage and he did know, she is 100% in the right for leaving him.

12 hours later 3017164 Anonymous
>>3017148 >I am not the anon who equated gender dysphoria to cheating. I imagine there is a ton of samefagging on a board as slow as this, but not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person. Sure thing anonymous. You were directly responding to people talking about this very topic. Learn basic reading comprehension. >Defend your stance without pointing out opposition's faulty arguments please. Do you want me to swim without getting wet as well? >If the wife had no idea at all of the husband's dysphoria before the marriage and he did know, she is 100% in the right for leaving him. It's interesting how you keep moving the goalposts further and further back.

12 hours later 3017171 Anonymous (Wut.png 322x325 213kB)
>>3017164 My very first response was to >>3015360 and it was >>3017097 How is that moving the goal post? You just seem upset because you think you have this unending right to do whatever you want with your body (true if you stop here) with zero consequences to your close relationships. The wife married a man, she wants to be married to a man. If you want to be a woman, own it. Don't bitch that your wife wont be your new lesbian lover. /lgbt/ has some serious winners.

12 hours later 3017193 Anonymous
>>3017171 >My very first response Sure thing. >You just seem upset because you think you have this unending right to do whatever you want with your body (true if you stop here) with zero consequences to your close relationships. >The wife married a man, she wants to be married to a man. If you want to be a woman, own it. Don't bitch that your wife wont be your new lesbian lover. /lgbt/ has some serious winners. This is an argument made and perpetuated by internet trolls. Practically every trans person in this thread doesn't think that anyone is obligated to stay with them. In fact, most expect that everyone in their lives will abandon them at one point or another. The fact of the matter is that the trans person did nothing wrong by getting treated for gender dysphoria, nor by repressing gender dysphoria out of basic safety and trying to live an average life as the gender literally the entirety of society tells them that they should be for their whole lives from childhood until adulthood. You don't see this same level of vindictive hate directed towards sufferers of other medical issues. But I guess you'll just try to rationalize that again in some hackneyed fashion as you keep attempting to.

12 hours later 3017207 Anonymous
>>3017193 oddly enough, you don't fit into the "practically every trans person in this thread". You said he should be able to transition without her seeking divorce. I was merely responding to that assertion.

12 hours later 3017217 Anonymous
>>3017207 I didn't say any such thing. Your entire argument rests upon responding to a troll. It seems like you're simply seeking an excuse to air your dirty laundry about trans people, trans women specifically (shocking).

12 hours later 3017230 Anonymous
>>3017217 I am sure it was a troll, I am sure it wasn't you. I don't have a problem with trans people much less trans women. I seem to just have a problem with you. I bet that happens to you all the time.

12 hours later 3017233 Anonymous
>>3017230 You have a problem with me because I made you look like a moron. You must have that problem often.

13 hours later 3017243 Anonymous
>>3017233 I have a problem with you because you are a snarky cunt that seems paranoid and easily offended. I hope your wife/gf stays with you if you haven't already transitioned. GL being less of a cunt in the future.

13 hours later 3017254 Anonymous
>>3017243 You have a problem with me because I simply can't seem to become the strawman you want me to be in order for you to save face. I guess that's why you feel the need to call me a cunt repeatedly out of frustrated stupidity.

13 hours later 3017258 Anonymous
>>3017254 I feel I need to call you a cunt because you are being a cunt. Hormones fucked with your brain lady. If you didn't post the first thing I replied to then I wasn't talking to you, simple as that. No saving face, I said my opinion, and it hasn't changed during this entire thread. You just seem to like being offended and internet arguments. Jokes on no one I like offending the easily offended and also love internet arguments. Lets roll in pig shit together forever. uguu.

13 hours later 3017270 Anonymous
>>3017258 You literally joined an ongoing conversation within this thread about how trans women were somehow responsible for gender dysphoria and therefore deserve harsh ridicule for getting it treated when they discover that they have that specific problem. I'm not offended by this. You're simply an idiot. That's more insulting to yourself than I. Maybe read a book. It helps.

13 hours later 3017281 Anonymous
>>3017270 Your victim-complex is showing. Just re went over this entire thread, please point to the post that said trans women deserve harsh ridicule. The entire discussion was whether or not the wife is justified in divorcing her husband. Do you have a specific book in mind? I read quite often.

13 hours later 3017293 Anonymous
>be 12 >haven't seen uncle (father's brother) in a while, but always hear parents talking about him >tell my mom that I'm thinking of calling my cousins and asking how they're doing, but my mom stresses that I shouldn't >okay >months later >my mom and dad tell me I'm gonna go with them to meet someone in some restaurant >excited all the way there, despite my parents' somber mood >we sit down and wait for a while >sometime later, a man in a wig prances down to our table and takes a seat, says in a terrible falsetto, "Hey, guys, how's it going?" >turns to me and hands me a present saying, "I got you a little something, young man" >everyone stares at me intently, so I open it >it's a pink teddy bear >the man glances up to my parents then says to me, "See, you might think it's a girl's thing, but I'm trying to teach you that girls' and boys' things shouldn't be so separated like they are now" >my dad jumps from his seat and beats the living shit out of the man >the police come, my mom takes me home >somewhere along the lines the bear disappears I didn't actually know it was my uncle until my mom told me later. Turns out, he suddenly decided to become a tranny, got a divorce, and hadn't laid an eye on his kids since. He died ten years later from aids.

13 hours later 3017294 Anonymous (How to avoid huge ships.jpg 314x474 51kB)
>>3017281 Apparently you can't read. Did you miss how trans women are literally blamed for having gender dysphoria if they're married to a woman when they're diagnosed? Even if they're perfectly fine with being left, and never seeing their kids again due to the unfair stigma, they still get shit on because they "should have known" when these medical issues have only been popular public knowledge for less than a decade. But by all means, resort to buzzwords and outright lying. This should be about your level of literary competence. >pic

13 hours later 3017315 Anonymous
>>3017294 Please don't use the word literally. Unless you are about to literally point out the literal quote where some anon LITERALLY blamed the trans women for having gender dysphoria if they are married when they are diagnosed. You still just seem like a victim projecting as hard as your trans fingers will let you.

13 hours later 3017326 Anonymous
The reason why a lot of TERFs exist is because of married men transitioning and demanding their wives and kids treat them like women. This is a face of transsexualism that a lot of people just can't stand, because they feel the MtF is doing their family wrong. People are uncomfortable with someone who still looks very much like a man suddenly wearing dresses and makeup and demanding to be called a woman. I can see how it can be hard on the kids. I think this is why awareness should be raised. If someone feels dysphoria, they should think twice before getting married.

13 hours later 3017327 Anonymous
>>3017293 What a weird story

14 hours later 3017333 Anonymous
>>3017315 You are literally retarded. >>3015207 >>3015315 >>3015377 >>3015707 >>3015714 >>3016057 >>3017097 A whole video of it: >>3015758 You seem to be in such a rush to drown your opponent in catchy buzzwords you ignore the actual thread itself.

14 hours later 3017335 Anonymous
>>3017326 Why is this never an issue brought up with FtMs in the crosshairs?

14 hours later 3017336 Anonymous
>>3017327 Because it's not real. Welcome to 4chan.

14 hours later 3017337 Anonymous
>>3017333 What is it with kids and their over-usage of 'literally'?

14 hours later 3017338 Anonymous
These men aren't trans anyway, just fetishists.

14 hours later 3017339 Anonymous (coldsteel sonic.jpg 780x770 188kB)
>>3017337 lol

14 hours later 3017348 Anonymous
>>3017333 All those PEOPLE literally shaming a trans women! There is no talking to you, the hormones LITERALLY fucked your brain beyond repair. buzzwords is a buzzword itself you woman with a penis.

14 hours later 3017357 Anonymous
>>3017293 Happened Status: Never

14 hours later 3017361 Anonymous
>>3017335 I haven't heard of a wife transitioning into a man. Seems like a lot of men tend to transition at an older age.

14 hours later 3017366 Anonymous
>>3017348 Yeah, they are shaming them for not being aware of a problem practically no one outside of the medical field and select gay political groups were aware of until a few years ago. Don't get mad at me because you're stupid. That's your problem, not mine.

14 hours later 3017367 Anonymous
>>3017361 >I haven't heard of a wife transitioning into a man. Because it's not nearly as newsworthy as the other way around. Less people seem to have a burning hot coal of anger and schadenfreude in their stomachs about FtMs.

14 hours later 3017380 Anonymous
>>3017366 Don't get mad at mothers and their children for not understanding your deep desire to mutilate your dick and call yourself a hon. To you all reactions that aren't glowing with praise = shaming. Don't get mad at other people because you were born in the wrong body. That is your problem not theirs.

14 hours later 3017389 Anonymous
>>3017367 Or maybe it just doesn't happen nearly as much.

14 hours later 3017400 Anonymous
>>3017389 I know not everyone fits in every mold, but generally speaking would you say there are more Mtf that are attracted to cis men than there are FtMs? I feel like a lesbian might be more open to her wife or gf transitioning into a man than a heterosexual women would with her husband transitioning into a woman. Bass-less conjecture of course.

14 hours later 3017403 Anonymous
>>3017380 >Don't get mad at mothers and their children for not understanding your deep desire to mutilate your dick and call yourself a hon. Creative language, very emotionally driven and all, but transition is the recommended treatment for a diagnosed medical condition. It's this way for both MtFs and FtMs, both of which can be married and have children prior to their transitions. You seem to be the only one getting mad here. You've shirked all attempts at rational discussion and defending your points fairly in lieu of empty insults. I can't say I'm surprised. >>3017389 Or maybe no one gives a shit when females act masculine but the world comes crashing down when a dude (or someone who looks like a dude) wears a dress.

14 hours later 3017407 Anonymous
>>3017403 Sure they can marry and have children before transition. After that they only have to explain to their very straight spouses why they suddenly want to have a vagina

14 hours later 3017418 Anonymous
>>3017403 >transition is the recommended treatment for a diagnosed medical condition When you are getting brain scans or you find the genome difference between you and cis men and can reliably measure it we can talk. Until then keep your soft science therapist interviews and feels to yourself. No one cares what you do with your body, but to insinuate that your dysphoria is a medical condition that must be treated is bullshit. Trans people have existed since the beginning of man. Sex change operations have not. Do whatever the fuck you want with your body, just don't get sand in your new vagina when your wife divorces you and marries a new man and your kids don't understand whats happening. That is selfish.

14 hours later 3017431 Anonymous
I think people just get suspicious because most older male transitioners don't really have anything feminine about them at all. They wonder, why do they want to be women? Some people say they're so masculine because of some type of repression, trying to "deny that part of themselves", but I don't know.

15 hours later 3017467 Anonymous
>>3015150 I wouldn't blame her one bit for leaving. In fact, I would blame the mtf for building a life that they know they can't sustain. But I also compulsively avoided relationships through highschool for fear that we would fall in love and then I would hurt her when I transitioned, so yeah.

15 hours later 3017507 Anonymous
>>3017361 >>3017367 It's because when a woman leaves her family it's womying power and she don't need no man. If a man leaves his family he's a provider abandoning his children and wife.

15 hours later 3017518 Anonymous
>>3017407 I'm sure FtMs don't want vaginas. Also, their doctor would probably be more than willing to help them explain it. That is, if anyone's actually willing to listen. >>3017418 Lets take an example. Schizophrenia is a neurological issue with psychological symptoms, as is manic depression, amnesia and various others. These are treated by numerous physical medications alongside regular therapy. Doctors regularly treat ailments like these by alleviating the symptoms one has, not according to individual brain scans. Treating one's symptoms for the alleviation of suffering is called practicing medicine. At this point, you are disagreeing directly with the health and human rights standards of the U.N. Gender dysphoria has been a recognized medical issue dating back at least to classical antiquity. Modern medical treatments for it now mimic the same hormone treatments and surgeries given to Scythian enarees and others who suffered from what would be defined now as gender dysphoria. Even the ancient method of extracting estrogen from a pregnant mare's urine is analogous to the medication used for both cis women with hormone issues and trans women until the 1980s and early 90s (it was since replaced by bio-identical hormones derived from soy). The concept of medical transition is by no means a new one. >no one cares Apparently people care enough about what I do with my body to fill comment threads, blogs and entire imageboards with shitty opinions about it, including this thread. I'm not into women, that's the funny part, yet you're trying to vindictively shame me as you would a cuckolded straight cis man for dealing with a diagnosed medical issue with the globally recommended treatment, a treatment almost as ancient as the concept of gender dysphoria itself. This screams of your own masculinity-related insecurity in response to MtFs who transition, especially since (again) practically no one cares about FtMs doing the same thing but in the opposite direction.

15 hours later 3017526 Anonymous
>>3017467 When you don't even consider transitioning as a viable option, or don't know about it, you will do all sorts of things to convince yourself you are absolutely normal because you are, yourself, convinced you are absolutely normal.

16 hours later 3017569 Anonymous
>>3017518 >Treating one's symptoms for the alleviation of suffering is called practicing medicine. No. It is called treating the symptoms and it is done to make you feel better not cure you. Hence why schizophrenics and manic depressants are still messed up if they stop taking medication. The medication is there to ease their symptoms not make them better. I do not disagree that gender dysphoria is a real medical issue with a real scientific basis. I feel we will sooner understand what makes a trans person trans before we discover what makes a gay person gay, but to say that hormone treatment is the only real option and that anyone in your life who doesn't instantly accept your decision to act on your "medical condition" is a body shaming bigot is asinine. I am glad you are actually a straight trans woman, that makes it all the easier to relate to. If you and I were dating with you being pretransition, no matter how open minded I am or aware of your medical condition I am, I IN NOW WAY could continue to be in a romantic relationship with you. You would be a woman, I would no longer be physically or more importantly emotionally attracted to you. Please explain how that is trans shame again.

16 hours later 3017576 Anonymous
>>3017518 Transitioning can help, but it still doesn't excuse the fact that the husband made absolutely no mention of it. Also, not everyone feels gender dysphoria for the same reasons. The current "brain sex" theory is at this point junk science that holds up to no scrutiny.

19 hours later 3018095 Anonymous
>>3017569 nearly every single mental disorder is treated by treating the symptoms, with the exception of maybe major depressive where you could argue that medicine cures some people and they can go off it. So I would say that treating symptoms is a very big part of practicing medicine, especially when it is related to the mind. There are more ways to practice medicine than just "curing" a disease. And pretty much no psychiatric condition is well understood. No psychiatric condition is justified on a scientific explanation, it is just based on empirical results of what the problem is and how best to treat it, and that is a type of science. There have been many experiments on how to treat trans people and evaluations of effectiveness, and hormone therapy is by far the best treatment, success rate in the high 90s. SRS isn't as successful, but it is still more effective than most medications for mental disorders which normally get a crappy 60-70% success rate. although I do agree with your last few sentences.

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