4chan archive /sci/ (index)
similar threads
2012-09-29 01:52 5101684 Anonymous (blown mind.jpg 305x400 50kB)
Prove to me that time exists and isn't just a measurement, /sci/.

2 min later 5101689 Anonymous
Why do you care? It functions for us no matter what it is.

5 min later 5101694 Anonymous
First you prove to me that width exists and isn't just a measurement.

5 min later 5101696 Anonymous
>>5101684 if it is a measurement by definition it measures something. That something is time. Which exists.

12 min later 5101720 Anonymous
Prove to me that length exists and isn't just a measurement.

16 min later 5101728 Anonymous
>>5101720 >>5101694 >>5101696 You can see width and length.

16 min later 5101730 Anonymous
>>5101728 bah, seeing is just a measurement made with the eyes

17 min later 5101732 Anonymous
>>5101730 All we got is observation at some level. You're going to have to trust us.

18 min later 5101737 Anonymous
>>5101728 >Seeing >Sight >One of the senses >Time perception >A sense >Time exists There you go.

18 min later 5101738 Anonymous
>>5101732 Bah, prove that observation exists and isn't just a measurement.

20 min later 5101743 Anonymous
>>5101738 Observation is a measurement, and measurements exist.

23 min later 5101750 Anonymous
If time didn't exist nothing would happen.

25 min later 5101752 Anonymous
>>5101743 prove existence exists and isn't just measurement.

27 min later 5101754 Anonymous
>>5101752 When you think about it reality is fundamentally based on circular logic.

32 min later 5101763 Anonymous
>>5101754 Oh, well. Let us all steep our solemn souls in solipsism for all time, which may or may not be an empty measure.

35 min later 5101771 Anonymous
time is something we created, of course it doesn't exist. it's an illusion, there is really only the present

35 min later 5101773 Anonymous
Things happen. If there was no time, you could never see change. Of anything. Ever.

36 min later 5101778 Anonymous
>>5101754 not in the least, sorry. Some of the ways people tend to describe them might sound that way, but that is a failure of description.

39 min later 5101785 Anonymous
>>5101773 there is NO physical interaction between the CONCEPT of time and physical phenomena. whatchu talkin about willis

40 min later 5101787 Anonymous
>>5101778 Well on some level there is no way to prove anything through observation, which is the only way to prove anything.

44 min later 5101798 Anonymous
>>5101785 It is because time is not ONLY a concept -- it really exists. Time is required for anything to change -- anything at all. Ever. If there were no time, no atom could move from one location to another. It has nothing to do with a human concept -- humans could easily have remained ignorant of time. It would still have been there, timing.

1 hours later 5101844 Anonymous
>>5101798 i was talking about how we perceive time, but you're right about its description in regards to change/energy flows

1 hours later 5101847 Anonymous (282349_486334431382410_302135434_n.jpg 585x600 48kB)
>>5101684 Prove to me that you exist and you aren't just a measurement, OP.

1 hours later 5101869 IQ fundie
Standard model physics deals with quantum fields over a Lorentzian manifold. A Lorentzian manifold is a stable vacuum solution of the field equations and is naturally equipped with a nondegenerate bilinear form that looks like diag(-1, 1, 1, 1) . Time is seen as the eigenvalue with the minus sign. Evolution of this coordinate is given by an action functional and the manifold can be viewed as being divided into infinitesimal slices along the evolving coordinates.

1 hours later 5101877 Anonymous
OP here, please prove to me too why there is something instead of nothing.

1 hours later 5101885 Professor Farnsworth
>>5101771 if times is just illusion has no playing role in the entire existence what drives us forward, in time: as we perceive it.

1 hours later 5101896 Anonymous
>>5101844 Perception of time is subjective; there is damn near nothing you can say about it. There certainly isn't anything to say that changes our knowledge of the fact of time as a physical fact.

1 hours later 5101897 Professor Farnsworth
>>5101798 that contradicts with the big bang theory no? even before time "began" there were super hot dense whatever it was. of does that mean time has no beginning nor end like time is the origin of the universe a single line running through the graph without end, and it triggers things and they happen, in that case. time is god?

1 hours later 5101907 Professor Farnsworth
>>5101869 so every moment we exist in is just a copy after a copy?

1 hours later 5101910 Anonymous
>>5101771 If only the present exists then how did it get here? I await your reply.

1 hours later 5101911 Anonymous
>>5101897 as it is now, big bang = beginning of everything there's nothing, nor nowhere before it

1 hours later 5101919 Professor Farnsworth
>>5101911 big bang states the universe was once something super dense and hot, and if nothing existed before hands where did any come from was it just poof there is stuff out of nowhere?

1 hours later 5101920 Anonymous
>>5101684 Uh... time IS just a measurement. WTF are you talking about?

1 hours later 5101923 Anonymous
>>5101919 there was no before

1 hours later 5101926 Anonymous
... and for the record, you will be hard pressed to find a physicist who will actually say that nothing existed before the big bang. People like stephen hawking simply say that there is no way of understanding the universe before that point, so there is no point in wasting effort on it. Thus, we set the big bang as the start of our clock, even though it isnt necessarily the start of everything.

1 hours later 5101928 Professor Farnsworth
>>5101923 nothing and then boom?

2 hours later 5101929 Anonymous
>>5101928 thats exactly the concept of big bang there was nothing, nor nowhere, nor before shit just happened and everything started

2 hours later 5101934 Nope You're Wrong
Actually, time is a dimension, meaning it was "created" when the other dimensions were "created". That's why it's call the space time continuum.

2 hours later 5101938 Anonymous
>>5101934 i thought Hawkings called it the party time continuum

2 hours later 5101941 Anonymous
>>5101929 Wrong. The big bang is a theory for the start of our universe... not the start of existence. A key distinction.

2 hours later 5101947 Nope Time is Real
Time is real, because it can be measured. measuring something is what "brings it into reality". Light acts as both a wave and a particle at the same time, but when you "measure" it (just observing it is a "measure") it's a particle.

2 hours later 5101955 Professor Farnsworth
>>5101947 but time cannot be measure in when it started, like how old is time? can we physically see time move?

2 hours later 5101964 Anonymous
delta exists replace time with planetary position in relationship to the sun or the radioactive decay of an atom

2 hours later 5101965 Nope time moves
>>5101955 we see time moving all of the...time. LOL. GPS has to use extremely precise clocks, that have to be adjusted to make up for the effects of relativity. This means that time is different in space then it is here on earth.

2 hours later 5101971 Nope 13 Billions Years Young
>>5101955 oh and time is 13 billions years old, that's when it started. Time started when the universe started and visa versa.

2 hours later 5101974 Anonymous
>>5101965 actually, most GPS systems still use Newtonian physics for their calculations.

2 hours later 5101988 Nope You're Wrong
>>5101974 If you mean for them to stay in geosynchronous orbit, then yes, they are using the law of gravity. For them to know where you are, they are and the planet is, they use a nuclear clock to tell the time to locate your position. The time on the clock changes RELATIVE to the earth. That's what the theory of relativity is. Time is relative.

2 hours later 5101991 Anonymous
do they teach anything is school anymore. God help the people on this forum are stupid.

2 hours later 5102007 Anonymous
>>5101988 What? you said they have to make up for the effects of relativity. I was just pointing out that relativistic time dilation is in insignification for this application, they don't have to adjust for the effects at all.

2 hours later 5102022 Anonymous
By your logic, any human concept is an arbitrary term (if you want to sound edgy, you could probably argue this easily). From our frame of reference, we view temporal processes in a linear fashion, meaning that the notion of time (I think you're specifically referring to forward-moving time) is simply meant to give an objective "distance" between happenings. As we view these happenings linearly (Planck frames), human time must be linear too.

2 hours later 5102027 Anonymous
The real question, is why there is not metric system equivalent for time. I mean, this whole 60secs to minute 60min to hour 24 hours to day 7 days to week 52 weeks to year thing is super retarded

2 hours later 5102034 Anonymous
>>5102027 Because these measurements mostly serve to show the length of a day, season, and year, they can't really be changed. Sure, you could change a minute to 100 seconds, but then there would have to be fewer minutes in a day, and fewer days in a season, etc. There isn't really a better way to set it up.

2 hours later 5102042 Anonymous
>>5102034 >All months have 30 or 31 days >except february which has 28 >except once every 4 years Fuck the gregorian calendar

2 hours later 5102047 Anonymous
>>5102042 no, fuck you. un-patriotic scum.

2 hours later 5102048 Anonymous
>>5102027 in the metric system, time is measured in seconds, megaseconds, nanoseconds, etc.

2 hours later 5102050 Anonymous
>>5102027 The numbers have a lot of factors look at 60, it can be divided by 1,2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20,30,and 60 So if you have an hour to do 3 things, you can say you have 20 minutes to do each, where if it was on metric, and lets say 100 minutes were in an hour, you'd say you have 33.3333333333333333333333 seconds for each task.

2 hours later 5102060 Anonymous
time makes sense in terms of physics. I bet that's tough for you psuedo science metaphysics fags to comprehend

3 hours later 5102064 Anonymous
>>5102047 what the fuck does hating the Gregorian Calendar have to do with being unpatriotic? You probably don't even know what the Gregorian Calendar is you dead dick hick!

3 hours later 5102070 Anonymous
>>5102027 There is it's called "the second", it works in the same way as the rest of the metric system. Kilosecond, millisecond and so on and so forth

3 hours later 5102081 Anonymous
>>5102064 >You probably don't even know what the Gregorian Calendar is you dead dick hick! it's what we use in America you piece of shit. why do you hate America?

3 hours later 5102102 Anonymous
>>5102081 The Gregorian Calendar was created in by the Catholics in Rome, it's not American, and the majority of the world uses it. not liking something your country uses, doesn't make you un-parotic. The reason America sucks, is because, you are uneducated, hillbillies, who think that a breaded man in the sky created your country, and you wage wars with people, cause you're dicks are soooo small, that it's the only way for you to feel like you have any worth.

3 hours later 5102103 Anonymous
Time doesn't exist. But it is very convenient for most things. It is easier to pretend it does.

3 hours later 5102107 Anonymous
>>5101941 Also wrong. The Big Bang theory isn't a theory about the creation of the universe, it's only a theory about the rapid expansion of it.

3 hours later 5102123 Anonymous
>>5102102 >The Gregorian Calendar was created in by the Catholics in Rome, it's not American doesn't matter. we still use it, therefore it's ours. just like the imperial system is american >not liking something your country uses, doesn't make you un-parotic you just don't understand patriotism you traitorous cunt. >The reason America sucks America is awsome >who think that a breaded man in the sky created your country god created all countries, he just prefers this one >and you wage wars with people sorry we're too strong to have to resort to negotiating with terrorist > cause you're dicks are soooo small our dicks are huge

3 hours later 5102149 Anonymous
Time is a unitary medium in which perceptual information is created, modified, and stored.

4 hours later 5102164 Anonymous
>>5102123 You are American I presume, I am as well. Please help improve our image to the world by ending your life. You are a cancer not only of my country but the entire human race.

4 hours later 5102218 Anonymous
>>5102164 >implying an image of suicidal pussies is good for us you're making Americans look stupid, stop that.

5 hours later 5102270 Anonymous
OP, things change. We can compare the change of one thing against the change of another. This comparison of amount of change between two objects is time. We try to standardize this by using things that change is a steady and predictable way - from the movement of the Earth around the sun to the uncoiling of springs to the decay of certain atoms. There is no current way to determine how things were changing - or IF they were changing before the Big Bang, thus we say the Big Bang was the start of time. When everything stops changing, that will be the end of time. As for the calendar, there have been several attempts to make a better calendar, and they usually ARE better but it is beyond extremely difficult to change a global habit like the Gregorian calendar. I rather liked this one: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0229/Leap-year-flight-of-fancy-how-to-remake-the-calendar-with-no- leap-day

5 hours later 5102303 Anonymous
Time is a dimension above us. Much in the same sense that a 2-dimensional being would observe walking on a mobius strip to be a straight, infinite road, we observe time as linear, when in fact, it's far from it.

7 hours later 5102502 Anonymous
>>5102218 There is proof that God exists. Because people like that won cold war.

8 hours later 5102511 Anonymous
Man it's saddens me that I'll never be able to truly comprehend more dimensions than 3 being perceptible. So it goes, I guess.

8 hours later 5102538 Anonymous
>>5102270 >OP, things change. We can compare the change of one thing against the change of another. This comparison of amount of change between two objects is time. So time is a measurement of change. Why not just call time the ability to change? Because people tend to confuse it with our time; minutes, hours, days, etc.

1.253 0.091