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2014-01-18 02:31 4479824 jonsnow (asoif-artbook-jonsnow.png 600x570 547kB)
Jon Snow thread.

1 min later 4479828 Anonymous
snow thanks

1 min later 4479829 jonsnow
>Is Jon Snow really Kill? >Is Jon Snow Rhaegar's son?

4 min later 4479838 Anonymous
His whole stabbing was very strange. The things he did was out of character.

5 min later 4479843 Anonymous
>>4479824 More like Jon Blow The whole Night's Watch shit is a bit frustrating. Their motives for going over the Wall with a third of their strength is pretty retarded. Especially when they know Mance Rayder has a force immensely larger than that...the whole Night's Watch plotmovements are kind of stupid and jarring. I don't know if that's just me, though.

7 min later 4479852 Anonymous
>>4479843 Eh...I never understand that part where he goes out from the Fist hill at night for no explicit reason with Ghost...but they find those pivotal 'Dragonglass' weapons which helps them out later.

8 min later 4479853 Anonymous
>>4479843 >The whole Night's Watch shit is a bit frustrating. Their motives for going over the Wall with a third of their strength is pretty retarded. >Especially when they know Mance Rayder has a force immensely larger than that...the whole Night's Watch plotmovements are kind of stupid and jarring. I never saw your pov until now. I don't fully agree, but I see what you're saying.

11 min later 4479861 Anonymous
>>4479853 I just want a better explanation from Mormont than 'I saw dead guys, lets go see what's happening'. But then they don't send messages to anyone. I mean, fuck, could you imagine if Aemon send Ravens everywhere saying the Night's Watch is marching against Walkers? I just think the whole reasoning behind it is really poorly constructed.

30 min later 4479906 Anonymous
>>4479843 The rational was something to the effect that Rayder would never expect such a large expedition and they could catch his force unawares, thus significantly reducing their numbers or even disbanding them before they ever reached the wall. Really it was the magic frozen dead guys who fucked everything up. >>4479861 They did send messages. Remember the hand they sent to King's Landing? No-one believed them.

35 min later 4479915 Anonymous
>>4479861 The idea is that they want to make a quick strike with the bulk of their forces to scatter Mance's poorly organized grand army and then retreat. But the problem is that they don't use the bulk of their forces: Mormont doesn't want to leave the wall unguarded and so has to both deplete his defense and underpower his offense. Also they walk right into zombie hell because they're morons.

51 min later 4479945 Anonymous
>>4479906 >Remember the hand they sent to King's Landing? No-one believed them. Yeah, I remember, but that was to warn them of Walkers, but he doesn't say anything of marching beyond the wall. Plus, they send the guy that everyone hates and Mormont almost sent him in spite...which is retarded. >>4479915 Yeah, the reasoning behind it is stupid and irrational. >>4479906 That was hardly the rational, because Mormont explains that Rayder will know they're there but wouldn't attack because of their positioning on the hill...but then fails to understand how eating food works, apparently. It's a really, really brittle rational in any circumstance. I don't know if Martin really thought through his plot movements for the Night's Watch very well.

56 min later 4479955 Anonymous
>>4479945 The guy was well respected in KL, Jon and the younger recruits alone don't like him. Personally I don't understand what the fuck Martin was thinking, how is a sneak attack preferable to defending from an incredibly strong and fortified position? Especially when it involves mounting a large force in the single most brutal terrain in the world.

57 min later 4479960 Anonymous
>>4479945 Mormont never intended for his expedition to survive. He wanted to do as much damage to Rayder for the Watch and expected most of his men to die.

1 hours later 4479974 Anonymous
>>4479955 >The guy was well respected in KL Tyrion hated him and he was continually laughed at during the entire time being there. >>4479960 It's ridiculous, no matter what rationale you put on it. Do the most damage to Rayder by splitting a really small force, taking them out from a heavily fortified position, through an area of no supply and fortifications? Really, it's a silly excuse to move the plot. >>4479852 Like this guy here says, there is almost no reason for this to occur apart from incredibly fortuitous events of stupidity from Mormont and unexplained venture by Jon....

1 hours later 4479979 JoelPerlstein
The wildlings have fucking giants among their ranks. Why the hell wouldn't they just go around the wall by sea. Thousands of years and they couldn't figure out how to build a short bridge around the wall or build a boat? The whole thing is friggin ridiculous.

1 hours later 4479981 Anonymous
>>4479974 It's not THAT ridiculous when you consider what happened when Stannis arrived. His force wasn't much bigger and managed to scatter Mance's army without any problem.

1 hours later 4479987 Anonymous
>>4479979 They did do this. The Watch has a naval component for this precise purpose. They also ensured that 2 of the castles that remained in operation were at both ends of the Wall so they could see this happening.

1 hours later 4479991 Anonymous
>>4479981 But that's hindsight. I'm talking from Mormont's perspective.

1 hours later 4479992 Anonymous
>>4479987 Oh scratch that, the Shadow Tower is far west but not by the sea. I don't know then. Natural obstacles?

1 hours later 4479997 Anonymous
>>4479992 Can someone explain why no-one built a second bridge over the Trident to stop the Frey's having market share?

1 hours later 4479999 Anonymous
>>4479991 No it's not...Mormont explicitly states that the reason this will work is b/c the Watch is so much more disciplined and better equipped than the Wildlings, that the Watch would cut through them like a hot knife through butter––and they would scatter. He was right, but he and his men died before they could do the deed, so Stannis did. >>4479987 Oh scratch that, the Shadow Tower is far west but not by the sea. I don't know then. Natural obstacles?

1 hours later 4480003 Anonymous
>>4479999 > He was right, but he and his men died before they could do the deed That's such a dichotomy. The Watch wasn't more disciplined, though. They were fucking rank amateurs.

1 hours later 4480005 JoelPerlstein
>>4479987 implying they couldn't go further out to sea so they were unseen implying the ships the watch had was enough to stop anybody implying Mance didn't conveniently decide to attack the most heavily gaurded entrance through the wall

1 hours later 4480011 Anonymous
>>4479997 Because the Trident is massive, iirc it took the Freys a very long time to build their crossing/The Twins. Plus there are different parts of the Trident you can ford, Robb needed to cut across the Twins b/c of the position of his army and a lack of time. >>4479999 Ok fuck, I was wrong about being wrong. Different maps say different things. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/c /cd/The_North2.jpg

1 hours later 4480016 Anonymous
>>4480011 I mean...in the thousand years that people have been wanting a crossing over it. They could have also build a crossing over that River...near the end of the Gorge

1 hours later 4480029 Anonymous
>>4480005 I imagine the terrain was somehow unfavorable for that to be possible. Plus, keep in mind, the further out they go, the more water they will need to cross. The richest/most industrious of the Wildling clans can produce crude bronze...they're not going to make ANY kind of vessel that doesn't suck absolute ass. The Watch actually had more ships than they did men to patrol with them. They were able to cross the narrow sea and mount an expedition to Hardhome with 11 vessels and had ships to spare. Uhh...I think Mance was just taking the shortest way as he wanted to get south of the wall asap. I don't know where you got this idea that Castle Black is the strongest of the 3 castles.

1 hours later 4480034 Anonymous
>>4480016 This is a stupid question, do you really think the Freys would allow such a thing? They literally created all of their wealth via the crossing toll.

1 hours later 4480040 Anonymous
>>4479997 Because the Freys are an armed body of men who will murderate you for trying that. They have a martial monopoly.

1 hours later 4480042 Anonymous
>>4480034 What can the Frey's do about it. They have around 4000 Bannerman or something meagre and the ONLY reason they are considered strong is because the Twins are impossible to siege. Building a bridge would just essentially force their army out.

1 hours later 4480048 Anonymous
>>4479861 They sent messages to everyone, no one believed. They left north to get proof.

1 hours later 4480053 Anonymous
>>4480042 Whatthefuckamireading. What would be bridge maker can match their 4,000 swords? >>4480005 Mance attacked all of castles on the wall, with his main force besieging Caste Black.

1 hours later 4480065 JoelPerlstein (1300044776986.jpg 250x250 17kB)
>>4480029 >justifying this hard

1 hours later 4480078 Anonymous
>>4480053 >implying I meant a single bridge maker I meant a fucking kingdom. There are so many that have reason to build a bridge over the trident and remove the Frey's of market share.

1 hours later 4480088 Anonymous
>>4480078 >Kingdom >market share Importing anachronistic capitalism into our book about Dragon War Of The Roses?

1 hours later 4480093 Anonymous
>>4480088 I'm saying market share merely as terminology. Not actual market share....merely the Frey's having something that nobody else has, therefore having the power of such object. Like, you know. Gold mines or coal mines and shit. I don't know another way to phrase it, but I didn't think someone's would think to much about it considering its a simple concept at face value.

1 hours later 4480117 Anonymous
>>4480093 Given your ignorance about feudal power relations, an ignorance that subsists at the level of basic terminology, why should we give a single soggy fuck about what you believe in relation to a Dragon 100 years war book about feasts?

1 hours later 4480126 Anonymous
>>4480117 You're trying too hard.

1 hours later 4480142 Anonymous
>tfw you've been gobbling up pages of the ASOIAF wiki for the past few hours What interesting lore. I may have to start reading these books.

2 hours later 4480191 Anonymous
So is Jon Snow done for or what?

2 hours later 4480193 Anonymous
>>4480191 He dead

2 hours later 4480254 Anonymous
>>4480078 >>4480093 You don't get it. If someone tried this, the Freys, and their friends, would be on their asses. Did you not note how there are systems of alliance throughout the 7 Kingdoms? As it was, the North and the Riverlands were historically friendly and so...there were no viable contenders for the passing.

2 hours later 4480259 Anonymous
>>4480254 are you willing to say anything in asofai doesn't make sense? (not relating to the magic mythology aspects)

3 hours later 4480368 Anonymous
>>4480254 I don't really think so. The Frey's aren't exactly friendly and their 'allies' extend exclusively linked to their crossing. I mean, Robb was willing to siege the fucking Frey's if he had the time. But he didn't so he made an alliance. All I'm saying, in all the thousands of years you'd have thought some other alliance would have built another crossing somewhere on the Trident.

3 hours later 4480379 Anonymous (1388821231038.jpg 648x480 26kB)
>>4480368 Robb was willing to do this precisely BECAUSE he had nothing but allies in the region. The entire North and Riverlands were consolidated in alliance, it's absolutely absurd to propose some other kingdom harbored designs on the Trident and was willing to fight for it. It's in the favor of the North for the Freys to have the sole crossing if the Freys are their friends, etc... >>4480259 I am, but 99% of /lit/s continuity criticisms come from being fucking stupid and not recalling the material correctly.

3 hours later 4480389 Anonymous
>>4480379 >Frey's are their friends This is just bullshit and you know it.

9 hours later 4480882 Anonymous
>>4480193 nah

21 hours later 4482290 Anonymous
>>4479915 A bit more than that actually. The whole thing was a front for finding their missing scouting parties and such. Largely for finding more about the Wights and The Others. That's why they took the Fist of the First Men and just sat on it. >Fist of the First Men >Superior defensive position >Big vantage point >Great spots for scouts to observe anything that moves >If the the Wildlings try to pass they would be seen >Wall is warned >If the wildlings attack they would be held off (for a time) >Wall is warned As it happened, the defensive advantage was completely nullified by The Others and their Wights who are immune to everything that isn't fire, obsidian and "Dragonsteel." They just weren't expecting that. Not that this really justifies the expedition, mind you.

21 hours later 4482299 Anonymous
>>4480882 He's as dead as can be, even in the resurrection theories all result in him coming back as a fundamentally different mental entity.

21 hours later 4482311 Anonymous
>>4480191 >throat kind of slashed >stabbed 3 times >last chapter ends with him unconscious laying in the snow surrounded by people who are trying to kill him he's done

23 hours later 4482692 Anonymous
>>4479838 He blindly trusted his comrades, and to him it was chaos. I guess we'll know how thoroughly planned it was next book. The Night's Watch has some serious problems with authority, but I guess it won't matter soon enough.

24 hours later 4482806 Anonymous
Face it boys and girls, Jon Snow is going to survive. Even though GRRM has been defying regular fantasy conventions by killing off what most people saw as the main characters, he's still writing a book. A popular book. There has to be some sort of satisfying conclusion, and I highly doubt it'll end with "So...yeah. The Starks got fucked, the Wildings exploded south, Westeros was plunged into darkness and no one sits the Iron Throne." Jon will live. He will either be resurrected by Melisandre straight away, or warg into his wolf to be born later amidst fire and smoke. He will then leave the Watch (because he died, and is thus free from his oath), reclaim the North, march south to meet up with Daenerys or Aegon , and then either marry her, or bend the knee and serve as the Hand. He is probably one of the heads of the dragon. I see no other way for this to go.

24 hours later 4482846 Anonymous
>>4482806 If he survives the mutiny (and I use the term "survive" lightly) I doubt he would go South; nor do I think he will survive the story to it's conclusion.

24 hours later 4482856 Anonymous
>>4482846 The real butthurt will occur when he kills Daenerys .

25 hours later 4482916 Anonymous
>>4482856 That would be pretty amusing honestly. >>4482692 Jon's entire methodology for handling his men was completely fucked. Ned tells him and Robb that a good leader shouldn't get too close to his men, as he might one day have to stand in judgement of them. Jon confuses this as "completely separate yourself from them in almost every way imaginable" which ends up doing nothing but fostering mistrust for him. He then assumes that because he is their boss they will do as he tells them to do and that he doesn't really need to fully explain any of his actions. This failure to understand basic leadership skills as they relate to ones subordinates bites him in the ass very hard, especially considering that his organization largely consists of former criminals. The irony being that he wasn't that bad of an administrator, he just had a shitty understanding of human beings.

26 hours later 4483027 Anonymous
>>4482916 Another thing to consider is that he gave a LOT of commodities to the troops of Stannis and to Stannis himself, also, you have like more than half of your men afraid/hating them witches and then you become her lover to the eyes of your men in other words, he fucked up big time >>4482856 No, the real butthurt will occur when Sam returns to the wall and they kill him because no more Lord Snow

27 hours later 4483189 Anonymous
>>4483027 Good I hate Sam.

35 hours later 4484026 Anonymous
>>4483027 The commodities he gave were justifiable but again, he never really explained any of this, not even to his officers. >The reason I'm giving them this shit is because I'm walking on a tightrope. On the one hand, the NW takes no part. On the other hand, Stannis and his Red Witch are bat shit bonkers, with a larger better equipped force. So I'm stuck giving them just enough to leave them sated, but not enough to compromise the oaths we have taken. If I fail in this, we are fucked; either by Stannis or the rest of the Realm. Even this would have sufficed but nothing even resembling this was given to any of his men, not even his officers. He simply kept them in the dark on the politics of it all and assumed that they would keep the faith. His biggest mistake was with the wildlings, but again he didn't explain anything to anyone. >I'm letting the wildlings pass, recieve food and shelter, land etc, in exchange for prisoners, their belongings, etc, because I figure a few thousands men and women are going to be easier to handle than a few thousand Wights. >But why not just seal off the wall? >The Others have been building and planning for almost eight thousand years; you think they don't have some sort of plan for that? What does he give his men? >The Others raise the ones who die. >Winter is coming, and with it the White Walkers

35 hours later 4484027 Anonymous (Apsalar_Crokus_by_plus_i_minus_by_Malazan_Art_Guild.jpg 556x778 102kB)
Crokus and Apsalar thread now

35 hours later 4484040 Anonymous (post-12776-026670400 1282702466.jpg 839x1049 371kB)
>>4484027 wtf is this fanart shit. fucking plebians ruining semi-decent characters with their shitty teenage-hormone fueled interpretations

35 hours later 4484044 Anonymous
>>4484027 There are two threads already, anon. If you want this one to die, go post on one of those.

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