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2013-12-02 08:10 4329038 Anonymous (Christmas_Santa_Reading_Mail.jpg 846x1051 254kB)
I'm interested in the figure of Santa Claus as mythology. I'd like to know what do you think Santa represents in popular culture. I would also like to know if there are other similar myths. So taking from at least one of these things: >old man is good at heart >not God, neither a hero, but immortal, omnipresent, powerful, with no rivals >still, it is human >a gift giver >infinite bag >lives far isolated >communication through mail >embraces the world, omniscient >representative of a time of the year >is perpetuated as myth by people acting in his place (parents giving the gits as if it was Santa) What kind of other characters spring to mind? Fictional or not, western or eastern, old and new alike. Also, what are your favourite Christmas stories?

3 min later 4329048 Anonymous
Is he not a "Hero" or a Saint in some way? The first thing which springs to mind (a bit edgy perhaps) is that he functions as a form of instant "karma" for children who can't conceive of a spiritual heaven or hell.

58 min later 4329233 Anonymous
>>4329048 Oh yeah, that's important.

1 hours later 4329260 Anonymous
>Also, what are your favorite Christmas stories? A Christmas Carol also I think of the Ghost of Christmas present to be a good representative of santa

1 hours later 4329271 Anonymous
Santa Claus is real.

1 hours later 4329275 Anonymous
>>4329048 >isn't Saint Nick a Saint? Thanks for your contribution anon

1 hours later 4329319 Anonymous
>>4329038 >with no rivals Not true in all his versions. Do you not fear Krampus?

2 hours later 4329550 Anonymous
/r/equesting zizek santa

6 hours later 4330480 Anonymous
bump

6 hours later 4330497 Anonymous
>>4329038 kanker nep sinterklaas

6 hours later 4330498 Anonymous
>>4329038 Never thought about it but Santa Claus is really an interesting figure in modern mythology. I wouldn't say his character has any surprising social implications though, maybe nostalgia (for childhood and better times) and optimism (gentle fella who loves everyone). He's basically the embodiment of what Americans like about the holiday season.

6 hours later 4330530 Anonymous
>>4330498 >He's basically the embodiment of what Americans like about the holiday season. a fat jesus who doles out consumer goods

6 hours later 4330571 Anonymous
he has his origins in Odin what he represents now? capitalism

6 hours later 4330604 Anonymous
>>4330530 This, he's the prophet of the modern western religion of consumerism. The few conservative Christians who bitch about Santa taking the Christ out of Christmas are ironically completely right; their delusion is that their Christ is any less a prophet of consumerism than a fat old elf who sells Coke.

7 hours later 4330626 Anonymous
>>4329038 You could start by reading about the real Saint Nicholas

7 hours later 4330632 Anonymous
>>4330604 Santa Claus = Saint Nicholas how is he not religious also, for the most he is about *giving* and not about buying, which is what a consumerist prophet would be about

7 hours later 4330638 Anonymous
Saint Nicolas was a cool dude. "Santa Claus" is the god of capitalism created in the US by advertisers.

7 hours later 4330650 Anonymous
>>4330604 >>4330571 >>4330530 >this massive self-loathing american butthurt wow >>4330498 >He's basically the embodiment of what Americans like about the holiday season. I agree with you, but would add a minor detail to the embodiment: "generosity, kindness, comfort, friendliness", along with the nostalgia and optimism you mentioned.

7 hours later 4330678 Anonymous
>>4330650 >self-loathing >butthurt This being /lit/, I'm calling you out for incomprehensibility.

7 hours later 4330720 Anonymous
Santa Claus is good for kids' imaginations. That is all. But apparently these days he also is the only thing angsty, athiesto teens and "Keep Christ in Christmas" fundamentalists can agree on: that he should be removed entirely from western culture.

7 hours later 4330733 Anonymous
>>4330678 Are you sure you're trying to tell me that self-loathing americans on the internet do not get butthurt about any potentially positive description of any facet of american culture?

7 hours later 4330736 Anonymous
>>4330720 >>4330720 >good for kids imaginations Source please

7 hours later 4330746 Anonymous
>>4330733 Self- loathing implies that I loathe something about myself. Butthurt implies that I am overly pissed off by someone else. Do you even grammar?

7 hours later 4330752 Anonymous
>telling a child something exists >after a few years it turns out it was for keks all along Way to inspire babby's first nihilism.

7 hours later 4330753 Anonymous
"behave for the next month and you'll get toys." though, in all reality, it isn't so much conditioning as it is an annual reward that comes regardless of the behavior of the child since parents tend to be inconsistent. they need to put a face to this reward that is not themselves, though, to avoid the manipulation that is typical of the little monster they've raised.

7 hours later 4330770 Anonymous
>>4330753 In the old proper Dutch tradition, if you weren't nice one of his black slaves would beat you with sticks and kidnap you.

7 hours later 4330775 Anonymous
>>4330752 It's a test of reason/creativity vs. authority Many children figure out Santa Claus is mythic on their own

7 hours later 4330792 Anonymous
>>4330746 Did you even read the sentence? >americans hate themselves, and by extension other americans/american culture (because it's cool and hip to hate their country of origin for them) >get butthurt (i.e., mad at others) if they bring up any potentially positive facets of their own culture Do YOU even grammar, or do you think that someone who dislikes themselves can't dislike anything else or that the sentence "people who dislike something about themselves dislike when other people like something about themselves" is somehow grammatically incorrect? Please read more carefully.

7 hours later 4330801 Anonymous (l_1308667_2977a688.jpg 300x426 48kB)
>>4330736 << Source You got me. I have no source for you anon. By "good" I meant the Santa myth stimulates their imagination. They wonder about shit and think of what is possible and what isn't. But you are correct, this may not be good, perhaps even terrifying for autists like yourself.

8 hours later 4330831 Anonymous
>>4330753 In my experience and everyone I knew, it wasn't some sort of Pavlovian conditioning. If you were a shitty kid you still got presents or whatever your parents could afford. It's not like the naughty/nice record books were actually maintained and updated regularly by parents. Maybe some did somewhere, but those sound like really square parents, don't you think? Who actually thinks their parents had like a midnight deliberation where they sat around and said thinks like: "I don't know, anon, was kind of a shit this year..." "Right but that wasn't anon's fault..." "I don't honey, how do we know? How can we take the chance and promote that behavior by buying him a Super Scope 6? We better play it safe and not enable him any further." "No super scope 6 then? Okay, good thing I saved the receipt."

8 hours later 4330842 Anonymous
>>4330753 >>4330831 Here's an interesting perspective: >child behaves in an average manner, some good and some bad >child told that they will only receive gifts if behaving "good". >child is excited, tries to behave well shortly beforehand if reminded >child receives gifts (largely regardless of behavior) >child believes they have received gifts for good behavior at some indeterminate point in the past, and seeing a clear and tangible reward for their good behavior, opts to continue behaving well Although, of course, it seems much more likely to me that the behavior of the child regularly has nothing to do with Santa and everything to do with the parent's discipline/raising of the child throughout the year.

24 hours later 4332553 Anonymous
>>4330638 >>4330530 Hating Capitalism Stay pleb.

25 hours later 4332626 Anonymous
>>4332553 Centre left 4ever the best. European centre that is.

25 hours later 4332633 Anonymous
>>4332553 There are capitalists on /lit/? Nasty.

25 hours later 4332636 Anonymous
>>4330497 zwarte piet is racistisch, yo.

34 hours later 4334493 Anonymous
>>4330792 I read self- loathing as modifying butthurt, but I now see that you intended it to modify American, so cheers!

34 hours later 4334514 Anonymous
>>4330632 because he's not St. Nicholas. St. Nicholas is just a part of many different things that come together to make Santa. Fuck, even Odin and the Wild Hunt contributes to the image of Santa

34 hours later 4334530 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (Krampus5.jpg 1000x1541 2419kB)
>>4330752 >>4330775 An odd test, I always thought. Once you find your parents had lied to you about this magical man, why would you trust them about Jesus etc. >>4329319 There ya go. Not enough about the Krampus. What's this Jack Frost junk all the time?

40 hours later 4335159 Anonymous
OP here. I was asking exactly because I never believed in Santa Claus. My parents just never taught me about him, they didn't like the idea of such a thing, they wanted me to know it was their own gift and that it was not a matter of reward. So the whole thing is alien to me. As a matter of fact, I also had a secular childhood. At the age of 5 I had my first religious argument saying my dad said God did not exist, while my friend said his dad said he existed. We asked the teacher if God existed or not and she told us some people believed in God and some people didn't. What a strange world. *tips tiny fedora*

41 hours later 4335170 Anonymous
>>4332633 >muh college communism >communism is not about misinterpreting hegel, communism is about being cool and making fun of capitalists

43 hours later 4335373 Anonymous (amanita.gif 168x187 11kB)
These

44 hours later 4335414 Anonymous (26306358.jpg 750x574 206kB)
>>4335170 Just made this.

44 hours later 4335420 Anonymous
>>4335373 are you trying to link Santa Claus to the hallucinogenic properties of amanita muscaria? if so please go on, I'm interested

44 hours later 4335425 Anonymous
>>4335170 As the guy who made that post, I'm definitely not a Marxist. You have a really narrow worldview.

44 hours later 4335430 Anonymous (9780374532345.jpg 668x1000 391kB)


44 hours later 4335434 Anonymous
>>4335425 >It's nasty that there are capitalists on my /lit/. >It's other people that have the narrow worldview.

44 hours later 4335457 Anonymous
>>4335434 You seem personally offended...

44 hours later 4335460 Anonymous
>>4335457 So do you.

45 hours later 4335536 Anonymous (higher_primate__stoned_ape_theory_poster_by_jeffdrewpictures-d4skes6.jpg 695x1150 368kB)
>>4335420 Siberian shamanism, that's where the legend originated. It's still practiced too. Reindeer and humans will actually eat these or drink urine from someone who ingested the mushroom (which is also called fly agaric), hence flying reindeer and shit. However, as somebody else pointed out here Santa Claus would have originated from Odin, perhaps the Vikings also used this mushroom or even psilocybe mushrooms (especially shamans or berserkers). The whole psychedelic mushrooms in religion thing dates even further back though and can be related to Jesus and the origins of Christianity. So, I'm not really "Santa Claus to the hallucinogenic properties of amanita muscaria", the info's out there. Was surprised nobody else mentioned it.

46 hours later 4335723 Anonymous
well, santa's weird: see, he's basically a wind god. Now we have two other wind gods that share a lot of his characteristics. And wind gods are not usually known for their kindness to children. Quite the opposite. Basically wind gods can travel fast and invisible, they can get in anywhere, they're known for stealing things (hermes is the god of thieves, saint nicholas is the patron saint of thieves) and for bringing things, carrying news. they come out of the north and function as heralds too, bearing tidings. Thier associatins with children however is usually sinister: they punish the bad ones by stealing their stuff and reward the good ones by bringing them the stuff they stole. Then we get to the windigo. he's a wind god too: and he eats children. and unlike the other northern wind gods he can't be propitiated easily. You get the same strict thrift, cleanliness and industry rituals as with most wind gods, but if you're bad and the windigo knows it, he possesses your parents and makes them eat you. (hermes impersonates people too: and while he kidnaps, he doesnt usually kill, and like santa an offerring of bread and milk will appease him)

46 hours later 4335768 Anonymous
>>4334493 No problem! Have a nice day.

47 hours later 4335925 Anonymous
>>4334493 Let's all reflect for a moment on the fact that we live in a world where this sentence is uttered.

47 hours later 4335935 Anonymous
>>4330746 >arguing the correct grammatical use of the term 'butthurt' Is this really happening?

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