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2013-02-17 07:17 3478573 Anonymous (chomsky.jpg 450x338 101kB)
How many of you guys actually take this man seriously? I'm not American and I find his books and lectures absurd and childish. I'ts good if you are an angsty 15 year old "haha Americans... haha freedom... empire haha..." Does he understand we are post-Cold War and the U.S is actually the main force of liberation in the world today? >blames the U.S for literally everything. >the corporations are trying to control you. >denies the Cambodian genocide.

3 min later 3478584 Anonymous
its pretty typical internet narcissism to dismiss chomsky in total. i do not agree with him always, but his criticisms are necessary in order to provoke more rigorous and careful reflection.

4 min later 3478586 Anonymous
I find him very tiring. (American, here.)

6 min later 3478592 Anonymous
His politics are bad, and his science is worse. Ever read any of his papers on language? The man is totally ignorant, and he'll never know it thanks to his fan club of upper-middle class college morons.

7 min later 3478595 Anonymous
If you actually read his work, his research is very thorough. I don't agree with his brand of liberal anarchism, but he has a great grasp of facts and figures.

7 min later 3478596 Anonymous
>>3478584 I mean the conversation he creates is reduced to comparing the U.S to Nazi Germany and claiming it committed genocide in Afghanistan. This isn't serious discussion it's frivolous and the work of a moral lunatic.

7 min later 3478597 Anonymous
>>3478592 I heard he only speaks English and Hebrew. What kind of a linguist only knows two languages?

8 min later 3478601 Anonymous
Is there anyone who Chomsky actually agrees with?

8 min later 3478603 Anonymous
we already have like 4 /pol/ threads.

8 min later 3478605 Anonymous
>>3478601 Himself.

9 min later 3478609 Anonymous
>>3478597 He knows French well enough to speak with Foucault.

17 min later 3478633 Anonymous
>>3478609 More like Foucault knows English well enough to speak with Chomsky.

31 min later 3478669 Anonymous
So far I've never felt I had the slightest reason to read him. What's in it for me, Chomsky?

1 hours later 3478771 Anonymous
CHOMSKEEEEEEEEHHHHHH You might not agree with him all the time, but goddamn is that man important. It'll be a dark day when he passes.

1 hours later 3478781 Anonymous
>>3478573 >denies the cambodian genocide No >blames the US for everything Once again, no.

1 hours later 3478814 Anonymous
>>3478573 >liberation See how the euphemisms stick. Fascinating.

1 hours later 3478830 Anonymous
it doesn't get better than chomsky

1 hours later 3478835 Anonymous
>>3478830 I'l take you to the dumpsky, because you've been listening to Noam Chomsky

1 hours later 3478836 Anonymous
>Chomsky thinks America is still an imperialist power? Well, I don't think that's true, so I'll check out some of his writings and devise an informed opinion on the subject. >Chomsky thinks America is still an imperialist power? He's a complete twat, he must be pandering to edgy 15-year-olds. Good thing I'm so much smarter than he is and have grown up from such a childish perspective.

1 hours later 3478840 Anonymous
>criticizes rich elites monopolizing money with an incestuous network of expert financial wizards >puts massive fortune into offshore tax evasion warehouses and trust funds for spoiled children

1 hours later 3478841 Anonymous
>>3478781 wait wut. where does he specifically acknowledge the cambo geno?

2 hours later 3479058 Anonymous
>>3478781 Yes he does. http://www.paulbogdanor.com/chomsky /cataclysm.html

2 hours later 3479069 Anonymous
>>3478814 You gotta be fucking kidding me, Iraq for example a country ruled by a totalitarian genocidal mass murderer who supported international terrorism is now a growing democracy with trade unions, female judges and live debate. If this isn't liberation I don't know that fuck is.

2 hours later 3479076 Anonymous
>>3479069 >If this isn't liberation I don't know that fuck is. McDonalds and Coca-Cola.

2 hours later 3479081 Anonymous
what work should I read by Chomsky if I want get into him?

2 hours later 3479113 Anonymous
>>3479076 See, this is the typical "Walmart and Guns" mindless anti-American bullshit Chomsky inspires. It's funny that people who make cringe worthy jokes about the U.S are often the stupidest morons on the planet.

2 hours later 3479116 Anonymous
>>3479069 and a new central bank, cortesy of international finance cartel, where the real power is. In the year 2000 there were seven countries without a Central Bank. They were Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, Cuba, North Korea and Iran. today, there are only three.

2 hours later 3479126 Anonymous
>>3479116 The money from the oil industry that used to go towards building palaces for the Hussein family is now actually used by the elected government for infrastructure and such.

2 hours later 3479138 Anonymous
>>3479126 >the US cut out the middle man and is now directing the profits directly to themselves

2 hours later 3479153 Anonymous
>>3479138 Please know what the fuck you are talking about before typing. The Iraqi oil industry is 12 billion dollars per year. The invasion cost was 100 billion per year. That's a fat greedy profit of negative 88 billion dollars every year. If this was a money making scheme ( I still have to see a shred of evidence to support this) it was the worse in history.

2 hours later 3479179 Anonymous
>>3479138 Also, when the oil auctions went up in 2008. The Chinese and Russians got the oil contracts, so yes the US invaded a foreign country so that it's geopolitical enemies could get cheaper oil.

2 hours later 3479213 Anonymous
>>3479081 I can't speak for any of Chomsky's linguistic work but a fun and bite-sized overview to much of his political activism and work can be picked up from "The Indispensable Chomsky: Understanding Power". Since its formed out of seminars and discussions its easy to dip into and get a feel for Chomsky. >Also OP if your not going to talk about books get the fuck off /lit/

2 hours later 3479220 Anonymous
>>3478597 Probably the kind who is educated enough to know that the study of A language and the study of language are two different things. It's like saying "what kind of accountant can't explain the Riemann hypothesis" two fucking different fields you turd

2 hours later 3479221 Anonymous
The little I've read by him was shit. His fanbase keeps me from giving him an other chance. I come from Morocco and the people who read him are people who think everything bad in the region is a result of the existence of the USA, They also like to carry his book around everywhere, but they're never seen actually reading them.

2 hours later 3479232 Anonymous
>>3479179 Yeah sorry kind got off topic but I was trying to refute the theories he proposes in his books. I guess that's a lose connection but whatever. I remember reading Hegemony or Survival and laughing my ass off.

2 hours later 3479246 Anonymous
>>3479221 Another they do is keep saying that Americans are stupid. I've met quite a few Americans and every single one of them was smarter than the smartest Chomsky-book-carrying asshole.

2 hours later 3479282 Anonymous
>>3479116 Stupid leftist, you know nothing about the financial system, you can't even explain what a long call is but you think you how everything works That statistic is fake, just google for Central Bank + name of country and you'll see.. From what I could gather almost all or all of there countries had central banks in 2000. You're buried so deep in ideologies that you can't see reality anymore.

2 hours later 3479294 Anonymous
>the U.S is actually the main force of liberation in the world today Stopped even considering posting an argument in this thread after reading that. Go home, /pol/. I don't even like Chomsky. At all.

2 hours later 3479296 Anonymous (nameless.jpg 549x824 85kB)
I'm from Sweden, and the high society has gotten more and more greedy since the 70's, as of today you have to go back till 1910 to see the same difference in salary difference between pay-workers and the greedy few. I blame USA and EU for this, but mostly I blame the greedy people who has encouraged this system of allowing rich people get richer by straight up keeping normal peoples salary in the low. allowing big companies to take advantage of smaller ones by strait up cheating them, not paying until their bankrupt and thereby get work 4 free. Liberation my ass, back to slavery for the anointed ones.

2 hours later 3479314 Anonymous
>>3479294 Well you posted something. Thanks for not even trying to counter my argument says a lot about you and your views :D.

3 hours later 3479329 Anonymous
>>3479305 there can still be competition I'd like to see it being done in Sweden by Swedish companies.

3 hours later 3479340 Anonymous
>>3479305 Get your bumper stickers out of here.

3 hours later 3479342 Anonymous
>>3479301 Jesus fucking christ, AT LEAST, you guys need to make a formal appology for the dictatorships on Latin America and for the economic disaster that took place thanks to the USA. Go read some Dussel, Habermas, Perry Anderson, study some history, then try to talk about "liberation". Listen to me, neoliberalism is going to fail, and fail hard. Some countries already discovered this the hard way(Finland, Brazil), but at least Finland already found its way out and entered a new constitutional paradigm that reflects the real needs, not an economic-centric law

3 hours later 3479347 Anonymous
>>3479329 Why? Are you racist?

3 hours later 3479349 Anonymous (HI8hlac.gif 500x325 81kB)
>>3479314 >Stupid uniformed opinions >Can't even articulate their argument properly >Uses emoticon >Just leave

3 hours later 3479359 Anonymous
>>3479113 this, they are the same people that post atheist threads

3 hours later 3479370 Anonymous
>>3479349 Still hasn't even attempted to challenge my arguent, sorry emoticons piss you off :S.

3 hours later 3479383 Fandroid (1344651208249.jpg 1972x2028 570kB)
OP is delusional as fuck. Probably because you're not American. Corporations, more or less control everything. Look into neoliberal globalization. >LEL AMERICA BRING DA FREEDUMS >CORPORATIONS AREN'T BAD

3 hours later 3479390 Anonymous
>>3479342 Again, as a Moroccan, I must say that European imperialism is the number one reason why where not a complete a sharia shithole, where Jews have to put their slippers on their heads when passing by a mosque and get a bitch slap in the back of the neck when paying their Jizya. Western countries ARE liberators. Deal with it.* Also, targeting people's economic need is the business of the people themselves and charities, not the government. First, it's unethical for the government to engage in charity, because the money it's giving away doesn't belong to it. It was taken without consent. On a more practical level, governments have been proven historically to be horrible, terrible charities. *I'm not saying imperialism is good. It's bad. We must not let our ideological convictions blind us to facts. Bad things can have good consequences. For example, government social programs have genuinely helped a lot of people.

3 hours later 3479391 Anonymous
>>3479342 >post-Cold War >in the world today. And why would Americans in general apologize for the actions of an administration 50 years ago or the work of private corporations?

3 hours later 3479395 Anonymous
>>3478573 You're either a troll or a fucking idiot.

3 hours later 3479397 Anonymous
>>3479383 Corporations do have certain power but from there to they control our lives completely and they are in charge of foreign policy is a long long road. And thanks for proving >3479113 right

3 hours later 3479399 Anonymous
>>3479347 nope, I am not. I do like a decision making process to be done as close to the people it affects. Hitler was sponsored by companies all over Europe and NA. >>3479345 I don't think you can say were the likeliest of people to go Nazi.

3 hours later 3479401 Fandroid
>>3479394 >thinks "stop reading there" cleverly and lazily gives you the right to disregard the facts. please. The media exists on the internet too, dumbass.

3 hours later 3479404 Anonymous
>>3479395 The amount of ad hominens and dodging of arguments by people like you is unbelievable.

3 hours later 3479405 Anonymous
>>3479153 Bush and the people he invaded Iraq for made all the money of course, they're not paying for the invasion.

3 hours later 3479407 Fandroid
>>3479397 can you reconstruct your post?

3 hours later 3479410 Anonymous
>>3479405 What does that even mean? >347907 Oops.

3 hours later 3479414 Anonymous
>3479407 Sorry..

3 hours later 3479419 Anonymous
>>3479414 >>3479410 the fuck?

3 hours later 3479424 Anonymous
>>3478573 >I'm an anon on 4chan and I can't understand history or social theory that criticizes mine and my society's lifestyle, you should agree with me

3 hours later 3479434 Anonymous
>>3479410 It means that the war was a money-making scheme, just not for the USA in general but a select group of powerful people.

3 hours later 3479435 Anonymous (confessions-of-an-economic-hit-man.jpg 316x500 42kB)
>>3479282 >leftist You're buried so deep in ideologies you cant realize that financial interest runs the show, and willfully stereotype anyone who questions the status quo. you think libor was a big deal? thats just the tip of the iceburg.

3 hours later 3479436 Anonymous
>>3479424 I'M FUCKING SPANISH.

3 hours later 3479446 Anonymous
>>3479434 Yeah, I think I disproved that in the original comment. The whole notion of war for money doesn't work these days it's too expensive to maintain and not profitable at all.

3 hours later 3479449 Anonymous
>the corporations are trying to control you. ...They aren't? Do you know what marketing is? Advertising? PR?

3 hours later 3479454 Anonymous
>>3479446 The select few aren't paying. It is profitable.

3 hours later 3479458 Anonymous
>>3479436 your a fucking henchmen of the devil

3 hours later 3479461 Anonymous
>liberation No...And this is not to defend authoritatian states or anything. This freedom you are talking about is a double-edged knife, because as you give a certain power to choose, to vote, to speak, those who are in control of the information, begin to control that choice, that vote, that speech. We reproduce one another, we speak of what we know and see, so corporations will (naturally) show you what they see and how they see it. So you start to speak for it (naturally), and this makes the corporation even stronger (naturally). But you see, there is a point that you lose reference, you lose perspective, there is no parallax. Corporations "control" you. They are not even "trying", they have to control to stay alive. It's not a romantic vision of evil men in suits laughing their asses off over the blood, though I understand some have this idea.It is just that they will do anything to protect their kingdom, they will influence politics, they will minimize costs through unethical procedures and maximize profit, by being as invasive as they can without making you realize how invasive they are.This "control" is only there once you believe that what you get in the news is an honest truth, or that opportunity is really for everyone, etc. Because it isn't, there is already an articulation of power through all that, which makes for horrible indirect damages to all except a few. I never read Chomsky and I'm not speaking for him, but I think to speak of liberation is just naive.

3 hours later 3479465 Anonymous
>>3479449 Chomsky means something much more than just ads, he thinks they are a massive shadow force trying to control and brainwash us completely and that they run the U.S government top to bottom.

3 hours later 3479466 Anonymous
>>3479436 Spain isn't capitalist now?

3 hours later 3479480 Anonymous
>>3478835 You realize that doesn't rhyme, right?

3 hours later 3479481 Anonymous
Anyone who dismisses Chomsky's work in Linguistics simply does not know anything about the modern landscape of the discipline.

3 hours later 3479484 Anonymous
>>3479466 The original post is quite clearly about the U.S and despite the fact that Spain is capitalist the government is socialistic and there aren't big international corporations.

3 hours later 3479486 Anonymous
>>3479465 >just ads lel

3 hours later 3479492 Anonymous
>>3479488 perhaps you missed the last two letters of the word socialistIC.

3 hours later 3479497 Anonymous
>>3479481 You better mean dismissing the importance of his work, because nobody actually still believes any of his theories.

3 hours later 3479502 Anonymous
>>3479465 I've never seen anything like that spelled out in his writings beyond the last part where they run the US government and that's obviously due to campaign donations. Do you have a cite?

3 hours later 3479503 Anonymous
>>3479496 the whole of Europe is capitalist

3 hours later 3479504 Anonymous
>>3479461 Despite their money and power corporations simply don't have the control Chomsky fans think they do. I don't think the destruction of a fascist regime and the gradual work towards a modern democracy is naive at all.

3 hours later 3479511 Anonymous
>>3479496 >>3479484

3 hours later 3479514 Anonymous
>>3479484 >The original post is quite clearly Follow the flow of the conversation, which begins here >>3479424 >and there aren't big international corporations. Then what the fuck would you know about it?

3 hours later 3479516 Anonymous
>>3479504 >I don't think the destruction of a fascist regime and the gradual work towards a modern democracy is naive at all. You need to become more cynical. FAST.

3 hours later 3479518 Anonymous
>>3479516 NO THANK YOU.

3 hours later 3479521 Fandroid
>>3479465 It's not some cartoon fascist mind control. It's soft tyranny, a manufacturing of consent.

3 hours later 3479523 Anonymous
>>3479504 keep on telling yourself that. What is your opinion on Israel and their real estate business?

3 hours later 3479525 Anonymous
>>3479514 >>3479424 Quotes the original post. Are you confused or something?

3 hours later 3479529 Anonymous
>>3479521 It's bullshit. That's what it is.

3 hours later 3479537 Anonymous
>>3479523 I think Zionism was a horrible idea to begin with, but now the only solution is a two-state one. They got no business building more settlements.

3 hours later 3479542 Anonymous
>>3479521 It's too bad soft tyranny gets people's pussies so wet.. To wit: 50 shits of Gravy

3 hours later 3479543 Anonymous
>>3479525 Are you dense? The US is only mentioned in >>3478573 This post >>3479424 intentionally leaves out nationality in the event that the poster is European. I know this because I wrote the post.

3 hours later 3479555 Anonymous
>>3479504 Corporations are the true nations of the world today. They can shift people and nations towards anything that would guarantee their safety and they clearly don't follow any code other than the code of the market. Naturally, like that shop on the corner, trying to get a new pavement in front of it from the mayor or trying to make a big billboard sign for the neighborhood to see. Except you are talking about companies that have more money and more power than anything else, including any constitution. That is not to say they act with no regard of it, they play along when they can and they fight against it when needed, whatever suits best their chances of staying on top. And as said, I can't speak for Chomsky nor "Chomsky's fans". I think there is nothing more naive than approaching the subject through that binary vision, like team Chomsky and team no-Chomsky. To impose democracy on an external system is in fact an authoritarian power, is it not? Which is not to say the fascist regime is better in any way, for I don't think so. The values we hold are not naive, but it is naive to believe they come out of an absolute truth, other than an idea on working systems that we get from what we read and see.

3 hours later 3479561 Anonymous
>>3479537 I like you better now. I have the same opinion, what I wonder is why the US still supports that bullshit. (tho ofc. I think I know the answer)

3 hours later 3479571 Anonymous
>>3479543 Your post says "mine" "my society". America is not my society and I don't follow whatever "American lifestyle" is.

3 hours later 3479577 Anonymous
>>3479570 True, but the obsession that certain elements of both the American Right and American Left have with Israel is bizarre.

3 hours later 3479584 Anonymous (1359909892175.jpg 960x908 53kB)
>>3479570 I'm not American.

3 hours later 3479588 Anonymous
>>3479570 Selling more weapons to Israel for cheap is a great way to oppose the expansion of settlements. That's not double-speak at all.

3 hours later 3479591 Anonymous
>>3479513 haha oh wow he just assumes that everyone who's a leftist wants big government

3 hours later 3479593 Anonymous
>>3479577 Yeah, it's like secular society hasn't really transcended its theological roots at all, isn't it?

3 hours later 3479596 Anonymous
>>3479555 I don't hold democracy as "absolute truth" but I hold it as worth fighting for and the best system we have. I am for "authoritarian" power in certain situations >>3479584 when it comes to implementing democracy, so what? Sometimes it's the only way to do it.

3 hours later 3479600 Anonymous
>>3479584 How is that even relevant?

3 hours later 3479601 Anonymous
>>3479571 You're European. You're capitalist. That's your adn your society's lifestyle. You OBVIOUSLY don't know shit about the US or Chomsky, it's clear that you're just pissed he's an anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist and has facts to justify both.

4 hours later 3479610 Anonymous
>>3479600 just a bad retort on being called retarded.

4 hours later 3479615 Anonymous
>chomsky thread on /lit/ >only talk about politics

4 hours later 3479619 Anonymous
>>3479615 it's what the thread was about to begin with

4 hours later 3479625 Anonymous
>>3479619 Yes, and I'm saying that's a bad idea on /lit/.

4 hours later 3479648 Anonymous
>>3479058 No he doesn't. The claim has been used against him for ages despite being totally baseless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lobj JYXTJpQ#t=32m00s

4 hours later 3479652 Anonymous
>>3479607 ty for clip

4 hours later 3479667 Anonymous
>>3479596 I'm saying that "democracy up until certain point" and "authoritarian only in certain situations" is all we ever had. If you play along and be profittable, an authoritarian regime can boost your business, your people, your money, your quality of life. If only you were in the right side, you'd have "certain freedom". And it is just as true with democracy, because the individual freedom is there in how you dress, in how you behave, but only because you are already on the right side from the beggining, as the consumer. You have no freedom not to consume and to produce. Unproductive land is wasted land and the government may take it, if you do not consume and conform to certain standards, you are left out without your rights. It is democracy only insofar... Opportunity and adaptation is all there is to all this, for all nations, all situations. Those who are in power protect it, those who are not in power, fight it. The key thing that I'm saying is that power shifts, so that instead of being commanded by this leader and his military goons, you obey to a beloving power which you think you choose. Authority is only perceived and seen as bad when there is a boot stomping on your face and corporations and money have this ability to put this behind all covers. An attitude taken by a corporation changes some numbers on the screen here, there and on the other side of the world, someone loses his job or a little forest is burned down. We don't mind.

4 hours later 3479725 Anonymous
>>3479220 >accounting >needing math skill

4 hours later 3479754 Anonymous
>>3479113 >>3479359 These two were incredibly painful to read. >they are the same people that post atheist threads I mean, really?

4 hours later 3479771 Anonymous
>>3479754 Yes, because most of the time an atheist thread's only purpose is providing a space for pseudo-intellectuals to feel superior over the oh-so-stupid and obviously homogenous mass of religious people. Trolls trolling trolls, if you want.

4 hours later 3479786 Anonymous
>>3479446 It was profitable for corporations like Lockheed Martin and Halliburton. Not profitable for the US government, and by extension, the American people, who financed the carnage and destruction with their tax dollars.

8 hours later 3480826 Anonymous
>>3479615 No one cares about linguistics unless they're in the field. Not spicy enough.

17 hours later 3481860 Essex de Vere Our Media and Other Things
Media and me: I don't know what I'm saying nor do I know how one is to properly set forth some grammar. Chomsky is one of the biggest walking jokes around. The small media owned by the few isn't trying to control you by being invested by the Govt and censoring things that would be to your benefit; you are in control of your life by listening to what is clearly the true words of you not questionings it. Why would anyone lie to you, I'm lying right now and I don't want you to listen to me. That would make me as good as small, but owned by the wealthiest in the world Media. No one is attempting to merge cable franchises with TV stations and if they did, that would be a good thing to not to have any diversity when you watch some good ole informative news that always tells the whole story and always covers every bill thoroughly and every debate is beautiful in telling its people what is going on. I love you Major Media and I love your soap for SOPA round two for the internets and telling the truth that some parts should be seen by our adults that are not lazy and obviously know that one could just filter the pornography section out. There isn't any validity in any of Chomsky's numerous works that some few idiots are consuming on a massive level, hoping to spread his parasitic word to share your pseudo intellectual knowledge that can prove the things you know can create things in this world. I don't hate Chomsky because to hate him would be immature, so I will do the mature thing and say I dislike him.

18 hours later 3481875 Anonymous (1360550111204.png 680x1010 421kB)
>you gonna get liberated

18 hours later 3481902 Anonymous
He has a cool name, who cares about his beliefs? If he is good enough for a more attractive ginger version of Kirsten Dunst to like, he is good enough for me.

29 hours later 3483338 Anonymous (1355529974233.jpg 250x250 11kB)
strange bedfellows.

29 hours later 3483376 Anonymous
You know, if we were a species in the Space Age and had space colonization easily available to us and there was another intelligent species out there with the capability of violent force or war on us, I wouldn't mind having one force be in control of almost every military base on Earth. But we don't live in that age, and yet the U.S. army has an absurd amount of bases across the globe, some of which even stand in place of actual armies for certain countries. All in the name of Freedom.

29 hours later 3483416 Anonymous
>>3483376 Or in other words, MY FREEDOM IS BETTER THAN YOURS NYAH NYAH.

30 hours later 3483474 Anonymous
>>3483416 Yes, that's exactly why my argument was. Exactly.

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