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2012-09-24 06:12 3003962 Anonymous (mystery_street[1].jpg 557x720 53kB)
Lit, should I go to law school or pursue a masters degree in Fine Art? I've been accepted into both programs I applied to although I'm eligible for many more scholarships/funding in the Arts program. Is it possible to be a morally and creatively fulfilled while practicing law?

1 min later 3003965 Anonymous
>Creatively fulfilled? Meh. >Morally fulfilled? Fuck no.

2 min later 3003968 Anonymous
>law, or fine arts that's some mighty fine cognitive dissonance there OP. Are you schizophrenic?

4 min later 3003972 Anonymous

6 min later 3003976 Anonymous
proceed to law. the arts is a bad place to have a life, unless you are a fucking talented genius then make a hobby out of arts. it is more fulfilling that way. it's ridiculous to make a life out of art and a hobby of law.

11 min later 3003986 Anonymous
>>3003976 I would never dream of making a hobby of law. The stuff is boring, it's just like a big game. But I'm worried that as a lawyer I would have little time for anything besides my work. I crave material comfort, for sure, but I am slovenly at heart. I don't want to have to devote all of my energies to my job.

14 min later 3003991 Omar B
>Got a full ride scholarship to Berklee for music (guitar player here) >Scientist father, economist mother convince me to study something more practical >Went to college for Accounting instead > Couldn't be happier with my choice. Friends of mine who went to school for music had to go back to school for a real skill like computer science or some other shit. >Don't try to turn a hobby into a career no matter how good you are, if your that good you can return to it after securing your future earnings, the odds are against you making it in the arts.

15 min later 3003995 Anonymous
>>3003991 You really missed out on four years of smoking a lot of weed

17 min later 3004000 Anonymous
This is a bad time to be a lawyer. As in, "bad enough that getting a Masters in Fine Art" looks good compared to it. I envy the underage b& of today. When the lawyer market comes back, it'll go to those meme-spouting faggots.

22 min later 3004017 Omar B
>>3003995 Missed? Smoking? LOL.

30 min later 3004027 Anonymous
>>3004000 So what you're saying is.. I should go for grad school in the arts, and only after having drank my fill become a student in the law?

35 min later 3004042 Anonymous
It depends, to some extent, on what law school you got accepted to. If it's a top, top school, it might be better to go to law school. Otherwise, I would go for the MFA since you have better funding, plus as someone else said the legal profession is saturated right now.

37 min later 3004048 Anonymous
>>3004027 Yeah. Wait a few years doing whatever (masters degree), and if you want to, jump into law, if you can get into a good school. Schools outside of the Top 30 or so are known as "money schools," because they seemingly only exist to make money, and not produce lawyers. As for when the law job market'll improve, it should happen by 2018, but it could be earlier or later.

44 min later 3004071 Anonymous
American law schools are collapsing, and can barely place 50% of their grads in jobs. There is a massive blogging movement and several lawsuits against accredited law schools regarding this, it would be a bad choice (unless you are in above georgetown on the USNWR top 10) Masters in fine arts? Are you, you know, like Goethe? If not, that is quite boneheaded in general.

50 min later 3004086 Anonymous
>>3004071 > If not, that is quite boneheaded in general. It's not a bad move if you're not paying for it.

52 min later 3004089 Anonymous
Is that the cover for The Subtle Knife? God damn those books were good

53 min later 3004094 Anonymous
>>3004086 Time is money friend. Being all cool artsy and bohemian doesnt mean much when you cant buy that nice car, support a family, or are in a shitty nursing home on state assistance because you chose to be artsy and not pragmatic. >>3003991 Smartest tripfag comment ever. You are supposed to hate and profit from work so that you can devote yourself to your hobbies in security.

58 min later 3004098 Anonymous
>>3004094 >Being all cool artsy and bohemian doesnt mean much when you cant buy that nice car, support a family, or are in a shitty nursing home on state assistance because you chose to be artsy and not pragmatic. I don't disagree but I think you're overstating a little. >Smartest tripfag comment ever. You are supposed to hate and profit from work so that you can devote yourself to your hobbies in security. you're making a virtue of something that's not in order to be contrarian. don't.

1 hours later 3004111 Omar B
>>3004086 It's an insane waste of time when you are young. Imagine all your contemporaries going to college, graduating and entering the work force. You have decided to put yourself behind. Being rich is not everyone's goal, but you should be trying to secure your future, it's a competitive world out there and an art degree gets you zip in terms of real world earning power unless you are exceptional ... and if you were then you would be somewhat well known. Companies like to hire young, keep that in mind. Don't waste time on getting better at arts and crafts or doing drugs when your young, put yourself ahead of those guys because they are gonna end up broke at home.

1 hours later 3004115 Anonymous
>>3004111 What if all I want is enough to pay for rent and food?

1 hours later 3004116 Anonymous
>>3004098 >>you're making a virtue of something that's not in order to be contrarian. don't. I understand what you are saying, but not in regards to what I wrote. By saying that I am being contrarian it implies that I dont actually believe what I wrote because I am trying to be edgy. Quite the opposite. Stability is important above all, risk must be quantified. The risk of wasting 2 years of your time or 1 year + COL so that you can study fine arts is quite boneheaded, esp if you have a library card. You could be pursuing actuarial studies, accounting, or an MBA and appraise art for insurance companies or the IRS and still have a marketable degree without a vacation of a masters program. Caveats: You or your parents are independently wealthy, you are attending an Ivy program, or have been accepted at a well ranked MA/PHD program, although I have read some horror stories about the death of tenure and the rise of "associate professors" in the arts and humanities.

1 hours later 3004117 Anonymous
Money isn't everything. If you have the wherewithal to graduate from a good law school and become a lawyer, you certainly have the wherewithal to find a job related to your passions. Become a lawyer if driving a lexus and owning a nice house matters to you. (and you don't mind working 80-90 hours a week). Do something in the arts if you will think that you will somehow manage to survive despite the HORRORS of living in an apartment and not eating out every night of the week.

1 hours later 3004120 Anonymous
>>3004111 capitalism has sure gotten into your head.

1 hours later 3004123 Anonymous
>>3004115 I love when people say this, since you clearly want to get a graduate degree on top of paying rent and eating food. Which means you have to maintain transportation to get to your program, and after your program you have to maintain transportation to getting to the job you hope you have. You also have to look nice as an art gallery appraiser or whatever, so you have to have a nice suit, not some JC Penny bullshit. Then you meet a girl, and holy shit that gets expensive. Or you are gay and hook up with guys on the internet, but they still want to go out to a nice dinner, and then you get into the whole gay competitve gossip girls type thing. So yeah, you will have needs. I was in HR for a sales company in NYC btw. I used to hire FA people all the time because I know they were so desperate that they wouldnt quit unless they got really miserable.

1 hours later 3004124 Anonymous
>>3004116 I mean, specifically, you're making a virtue out of the idea of hating your job and enjoying hobbies on the side. If you hate your job, you hate your job. It's not a virtue or part of the natural order of things or how things "should" be. It may be, it often is, worth it because of what it gets you. But don't act like having a job you hate is a good thing to strive for.

1 hours later 3004125 Anonymous
ITT: Youngfags who don't know shit. Let me tell you, my friend: if you don't pursue what you love now, you will NEVER get around to it. All these fucking idiots saying you can turn your passion into a "hobby" while pulling in big white collar bucks don't know shit about the day to day grind of working. You will have no energy left at the end of your workday except for mind-deadening happy hours or anaesthetizing vicarious experience from tv or movies or other passive entertainment. And you will regret it immensely. Don't be a fucking beta faggot who makes decisions in life based on fear - "oh no, if i don't make a lot of money, I may have to go to a nursing home in sixty years!!" Only a fucking coward thinks like that.

1 hours later 3004126 Anonymous
>>3004123 >since you clearly want to get a graduate degree You picked this up about me from that one sentence?

1 hours later 3004131 Anonymous
>>3004120 The children on this board are ridiculous. He isnt saying GET RICH BITCH, he is saying that you have to maintain security, not just for yourself but for your dependents, and possibly, your parents, as most baby boomers dont save shit. Then what if you dont have health care and you get appendicitis because you dont have a job. Then you have medical bills. >>3004117 The lawyers who own a lexus and shit are the .00001%, most lawyers make 50-80k and do insurance or real estate papers all day, and have a mortgage and drive cars and have to hustle. The ones who do well for themselves out of law school are the top 50% in the T10, and the top 5% in the T100, and the top 1% in the bottom tiers. And they make market, which is like 90-160k, which is good, but not bottle service and models sucking on your dick. If you want to be lawyer

1 hours later 3004132 Anonymous
>>3004125 I second this. The worlds of art and literature would suffer if everyone was too scared to follow their dreams.

1 hours later 3004135 Anonymous
If you're getting paid to study the arts, fuck the law.

1 hours later 3004136 Anonymous
>>3004125 Buddy, im 10 years out of college, ive worked my ass off, and let me tell you i regret my degree which I got due to LOVE and passion. I wish my parents had pushed me into something I can become stable with instead of hustling and clawing to make the 45k I make now. And I dont have the albatross of a MFA around my neck. Are you a baby boomer? Or GenX? You sound like your optimism hasnt been smeared by job hunting during the crash.

1 hours later 3004139 Anonymous
>>3004136 What you're saying is, you don't actually love the thing you majored in.

1 hours later 3004140 Anonymous
>>3004126 Presuming you were the OP, who does. If you arent, and if you dont, and want to sit and play vidya all day and read all night, godspeed. But you still have to pay for utilities :)

1 hours later 3004144 Anonymous
>>3004139 Nope, I love it. Read about it every day. Doesnt mean that I can feed my family with it, but I followed my dreams, and graduated summa. But state university>white male>HR at sales company. Gotta pay the rent after all.

1 hours later 3004147 Anonymous
>>3004140 OP here, and so considering that I would get my degree practically for free, do you think I should jump on that chance? Lots of people ITT seem to be emphasizing life's 'destination' so to speak (job security, pension), but if I can achieve that in due course, and enjoy the voyage, what is stopping me?

1 hours later 3004149 Anonymous
>>3004144 >having dependents I am truly very sorry for you, sir

1 hours later 3004151 Omar B
>>3004115 >>3004120 Then only make enough to pay your rent and buy your food. Yes Capitalism. Dad's a scientist, mom is an economist, step dad is an economist. Most people are 2 paychecks from being out on the street. Most people cannot absorb a big expense if it hit them. Health problem insurance doesn't cover? Family member falls ill and you have to buy a plane ticket to another country this very minute? Car's transmission fails? Any number of things can happen. Don't vilify money or the desire to earn, money gives you more control over whatever can happen in your life. Ever go to a bank and see people needing a loan for shit that should have been taken care of already? Crawling on their bellies, hat in hand to someone else for the means to survive?

1 hours later 3004154 Anonymous
The choice is really difficult because of unforeseen consequences. Just pick the masters and see where it takes you, but, if you fail with that, then you can get a real job.

1 hours later 3004155 Anonymous
>>3004136 Nah, I'm 32. I have an arts degree, listened to my stupid parents who stressed "security at all costs" (like most parents), got a series of white collar jobs for 40K - 95K, finally got fed up, have worked as an artist for the past 5-6 years making jack shit, but I'm far happier being a hustling desperate artist than an affluent secure flush-with-cash cubicle fuckface.

1 hours later 3004170 Anonymous
>>3004155 Good for you. I'm not being ironic or sarcastic or anything. Good for you.

1 hours later 3004174 Anonymous
>>3004151 I am fortunate enough for none of your provided examples of potential economic problems to matter. If my car stops working I will ride a bike or catch public transport - because I won't need to spent two hours a day in peak traffic every day getting to and from a shitty job that I hate. My extended family and friends network are empathetic enough to not ask me to waste my life earning money so I can spent a huge amount of it to go see them before they die, in the small chance they become mortally ill overseas. I would not ask the same of them. There would be no reason for me to go besides arbitrary sentimental laws, not in a world where legal and financial issues can all be done by phone or on the internet. A situation where I am in desperate need of a loan will likely never happen to me either, because I am not a retard.

2 hours later 3004194 Anonymous
Damn, threads like these make me sad. The job market really is completely fucked in the US, isn't it?

2 hours later 3004223 Anonymous
I envy you, OP. I love Law, and it interests the fuck out of me, but I had a schizophrenic break in the run up to applying to University and scuppered any chances of ever getting into a decent Law school. Feels bad.

2 hours later 3004265 Anonymous
Dear Faggy OP, I mean "faggy" in the nicest way. Don't let "academia" tell you what to be. Have an individual thought, I beg you. You will be amazed.

3 hours later 3004275 Anonymous
>>3004265 This isn't true. You'll likely end up miserable if you have no real purpose, and you'll die never having achieved anything.

3 hours later 3004280 Anonymous
>>3004275 What do "having a purpose" and being a part of academia have to do with each other?

3 hours later 3004296 Anonymous
It depends on how much aid you're getting for the MFA. If you have full tuition paid for you might as well do it. As others have said, the job market for law grads is pretty terrible right now.

5 hours later 3004435 Anonymous
I find myself in a similar situation OP. Heading into 3rd yr psych next year, I have to decide now what direction to take. Neuroscience has always been my area of interest, but jobs are few and hard to come by, required workload is difficult & constant + post grad study, but fuck me it's the brain, the final frontier - dat shit cray Second option is clinical psych - listening to people bitch about how their personal problems are in fact mental disorders, on a daily basis. The only reason I'm even considering doing this is the lifestyle it affords. id never have to worry about finding work (huehue) and be able to cultivate other interests (literature, travel) in spare time. So basically it boils down to: possibly fulfilling/risky career vs shitty job that allows greater freedom. Any advice from the older /lit/izen s?

6 hours later 3004462 Anonymous
>>3003962 >law school do you know any lawyers? is your dad a lawyer? is there an opening at a firm where they like you? the answer to all of these questions is probably no law is an incredibly oversaturated profession, and unless you have connections, you will end up like the countless young adults who pursued a law degree but cannot find work.

6 hours later 3004464 Anonymous
don't do law. ever.

6 hours later 3004465 Anonymous
>>3003991 >bragging about getting a scholarship from berklee that was hot shit in the 60s maybe, get over yourself >being a musician but referring to music as something other than a "real skill" >passions=hobbies and nothing more for fuck's sake, you are the worst kind of person

6 hours later 3004468 Anonymous

6 hours later 3004473 Anonymous
Hi OP, I would go with law school if I were you. I'm probably biased because I think there's a lot of interesting aspects to law (I studied economics myself). Though the american market is saturated with lawschool grads, it seems to me that studying law at least gives you a sort of tangible professional skill, even if you never become top dog lawyer #1. I'm not american, but it seems to me that there is a general misconception that you only go to law school to become a court room lawyer. Most corporations and organizations, including those involved in the arts, have a need for legal advice in their field. There is always a need for people with knowledge in law in insurance, if you approach underwriters specializing in underwriting art pieces possible they could tell you what they look for? Basically studying law won't necessarily make you super rich, have realistic expectations, but it will be more likely to afford you an easier middle / upper middle class existence than an MFA. You can always go back to school and study fine arts if you don't like working in the legal field, with a degree in law you can possible find part-time work to sustain yourself more easily. On the other hand if you're talented in arts, and that's where your passion is, then go with it. It's harder to get a decent standard of living out of it, but it may be worth it to you.

6 hours later 3004475 Anonymous
>>3004151 jesus fucking christ, I'd like to think this is a troll, but I'm sure it's not >don't vilify money oh ok, cool, then don't vilify people who don't have as much money as you >people who aren't completely money-career-success oriented are begging for handouts from me are you five years old? been listening to dad yell at fox news?

6 hours later 3004488 Anonymous
anyone? >>3004435

6 hours later 3004494 Anonymous
>>3004488 Well, with all the coursework, degree in neuropsychology, PHD, etc. how long would it take you to take a clinical psych degree? Like if neuropsychology doesn't work out, how long time would it take to qualify yourself for the alternate career? If it's not too much, I would go for the neuropsychology thing.

8 hours later 3004568 Omar B
>>3004475 I didnt vilify people with less money. I said it was fine if all you wanted to do was make your rent or whatever basic needs. No I'm not 3, I'm 31. Jeeze, you make it seem like I told the guy to cut his leg off. Learn a marketable skill, how hard is that to fathom?

8 hours later 3004585 Anonymous
>>3004494 Neuropsych is a 4yr course + 2-3yrs post grad. Clinical psych is 4yrs. I considered doing just that, getting neuropsych under my belt and if that didn't work out, going for clinical psych afterward (which would be another 1-2yrs). But that would total 8-10yrs all up. Wasting the best years on studying for a career that hasn't even begun: no thanks I think it comes down to a conflict between interest in psychology and lack of interest in work in general (I don't really care for money). Ideally, I'd like to work as little as possible and spend my time travelling through Europe, soaking up the culture. I'm now leaning towards clinical psych, thanks anon!

8 hours later 3004590 Anonymous
>>3004585 Do neuroscience. Do you know how fucked that shit is getting? Read 'The Ego Tunnel' by Metzinger if you haven't already. Neuroscientists are breaching the fabric of reality via our connection to it: the brain. Out of body experiences, for example, have been caused by experimenters stimulating a particular part of the brain. Don't you want to do cool shit like that? I fucking wish I was.

8 hours later 3004605 Anonymous
>>3004585 I am European and I if you haven't been here before I think you may be overrating the culture :P If you want to just make a living and afford to travel etc. and not have to work crazy hours or worry too much about your job / career, clinical psych sounds good. Going for neuropsychology on the other hand would give you a job that you'd be able to really get into, and who knows what the job situation will be like in 6-7 years, maybe it'll be easy to get a job with a neuropsychology PHD.

9 hours later 3004632 Anonymous
art law is for fags i've spent a lot of time with lawyers in a professional setting. they're human worms. you will bankrupt yourself for a degree that you need to devote more than half your life to for it to be rewarding as a degree and pay back your loans... faggotron alert, wasted life, goodbye next 20 years. study art, i would if i were you, look at art, hang out with art, be a teacher

9 hours later 3004702 Anonymous
None of the above, don't try and hide from life by going to grad school. Go get a job.

10 hours later 3004747 Anonymous
>>3004702 LOL

10 hours later 3004753 Anonymous
>>3004590 Neuroscience is one of the most interesting fields ever.

10 hours later 3004756 Anonymous
I'm currently in my 3rd year of Fine Arts in univerity, OP. It's my passion but let me tell you it SUCKS. I've come to realize that you really cannot "teach" art. When you go to school they will try to force shit on you instead of just teaching you techniques. I say get a solid job and keep art as NOT a hobby, but keep it as a burning passion; just don't make it into your job. It will seriously damage your originality and kill your drive.

10 hours later 3004765 Anonymous
>>3003986 Welcome to the real world faggot.

10 hours later 3004766 Anonymous
I'm studying law in Denmark, and it is quite fun. I can spend my free time reading the novels and essays I want, and still do quite well in class. There are so many career options (at least over here) that doesn't involve working 65 hours a week. And it's only around 5% that become the blood sucking lawyers that everyone, including law student, hate.

10 hours later 3004768 Anonymous
Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY50vvMjX_o

10 hours later 3004793 Anonymous (grimshaw3.jpg 1800x1183 371kB)
>>3003962 >Is it possible to be a morally and creatively fulfilled No.

10 hours later 3004795 Anonymous
>>3004136 >45k How about you make 15k and don't struggle so much?

26 hours later 3006745 Anonymous
>>3003991 That's a terrible example, everyone knows like eighty percent of people who go to Berklee drop out before graduating.

26 hours later 3006756 Anonymous (1337688085082.gif 300x345 2293kB)
>>3004136 >Gen X >optimistic It's like you've never even seen television in the past twenty-five years.

26 hours later 3006757 Anonymous
>>3004753 >>3004590 My uni has two variations on neuroscience: apparently you can major in it through both the School of Liberal Arts as well as the School of Science and Tech. What's the difference?

26 hours later 3006763 Anonymous
>>3006757 You would probably go through a psych course before neuroscience if you took the liberal arts route. Unsure though

29 hours later 3006986 Anonymous
>>3006757 I assume you can probably do a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Psychology - which normally has a lower prerequisite score/OP (thru your lib arts school) or just do the Bachelor of Psych Science (thru your Science Tech) That's how it works at my uni anyway.

30 hours later 3006989 Anonymous
I actually had this exact scenario happen to me. Applied for Law and English and got into both. Did a year of joint honours then switched to full honours degree in English and it is perhaps the biggest mistake of my life. Certainly from a career perspective it is the biggest mistake of my life. When I graduate I will need to either pursue another degree (which I do not have money to fund) or get a bar/cinema/waiting job and save up money. The alternatives to that are the merchant navy, construction etc. I have chose a degree which is, in many ways, career suicide. Life is not about a career, but I feel like I could have done most of my uni reading in my free time. The degree has merely forced me to do it.

30 hours later 3006990 Anonymous
>>3006989 do law and stick in

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