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2013-02-26 06:52 8762132 Rainer (22518058.jpg 809x1024 132kB)
Let's have a rhethorical, philosophic, /int/ related thread. 1) Flag 2) ¿Would you describe yourself as a patriot? 3) ¿Do you believe in nationalism? In my opinion, nationalism is what kings and monarchs from the past invented to make the peasants fight each other, and it should have no place in a modern society like nowadays. It is nothing more than the belief that one country is superior to another by virtue of the fact that you were born there. Also, this: "The fewer the reasons that a man has to be proud of himself, more often is he proud of belonging to a nation." Just a quote from Arthur Schopenhauer, one of the greatest antinacionalist thinkers of all time (pic related). Now post your opinions, lets get the debate rolling.

2 min later 8762179 Kornheiser
>>8762132 I agree with Shaw on the subject of patriotism.

9 min later 8762297 G
>>8762132 I think that patriotism is a good way to control people and make them go to war. The best example is US, you'll see it clearly on their movies (every of them includes shooting and defending their flag). Imo if you really like your country and want the best for it just be a good citizen and honest, there's no need for fake patriotism. I also find stupid being proud belonging to a nation, afterall we're all human beings

11 min later 8762323 Anonymous
>>8762132 MALBIMAS ARJENTIMAS

17 min later 8762420 Anonymous (1303027034067.jpg 526x650 103kB)
>>8762323 >i'm going to act like a retard about malvinas so everyone here will see how i'm such a mature person and above any insignificant border conflict as i love the cock and i consider myself a citizen of the world and i hate my countrymen

20 min later 8762464 Anonymous
>>8762132 I generally support my country but can also recognize its flaws. Nationalism, like all things, requires moderation. It's good to have some pride in your country, and to be willing to work for the good of the state, but you don't want to invite contempt of other nations.

20 min later 8762467 Anonymous
You're a retard OP.

22 min later 8762493 Anonymous
Nationalism is the driving force behind world politics, what do you propose would replace it? Keep in mind that nationalism replaced religion as that driving force.

25 min later 8762557 G
>>8762493 You're right with the dividing force stuff but it always ends in people blind lloving their countries. I can tell you this because I live in a country where the nationalist ppl (that turns out to be the incumbent government) accept EVERYTHING our president decides, even if it's right or wrong, so we gotta find a way to replace this and instead of divide people, unite them

32 min later 8762641 Rainer
>>8762493 Something similar, but with pride for the human species as a hole, instead of nations. I wouldn't know exactly how to call it (humanism?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnmm npj_pX8 This video might enlight some. Rejecting nationalism is the first step to achieving a one world state, thus becoming a type 1 civilization. Antinationalism is the future.

33 min later 8762643 Anonymous
>>8762557 That's how it works in almost every civilized country of the world. If you don't like it, then go to Africa so you won't have a president telling you what to do.

40 min later 8762730 G
>>8762643 You didnt understand my point, hopefully we have democracy in Argentina but that does not mean that our president will be always 100% right and instead of pointing out what's wrong ppl just accept it. There's just no way to improve as a country this way. hence nationalism sucks

4 hours later 8764869 Anonymous
>>8762132 >nationalism is what kings and monarchs from the past invented >invented Whether it's good or bad aside, you could argue that nationalism is an inherent property of larger societies and grows naturally due to humans innate desire to 'belong' and form 'us vs them' to solidify their own identity. >family >extended famliy >tribe />village >town >city >city state >country etc etc Personally, I'm not one for nationalism, but it can be used for good or bad.

4 hours later 8764874 Anonymous
>>8762297 >I think that patriotism is a good way to control people and make them go to war. Exactly. p.s. Argentina, stop being dicks about the Falklands.

4 hours later 8764962 flipbro
>>8762641 But the rejection of nationalism isnt popular at all and highly inefficient. By destroying nationalism weakens a state thus it become much more weaker and thus are easily exploited and could be culturally invaded by culturally strong state. Thus by doing this it helps that country's nation with the strong culture.Which strengthens their nationalism. If this were to happen it would transition to type 1 but under strong nations that is not with pluralist thus rejection of nationalism is a bad thing for a state.

5 hours later 8765509 Anonymous
>>8764874 >implying thats solely about patriotism

5 hours later 8765611 Anonymous
>>8764869 Wouldnt' that be >district >town >city >state/province >country

5 hours later 8765636 Anonymous
>>8762132 1. Visible. 2. Sort of. I do love my country, but why shouldn't I? I am certainly more patriotic on /int/ than I am in reality because it's more fun this way. Falklands is British by the way. 3. To an extent. I like the ideals and standards that my country upholds compared to others and I definitely don't want to see them slacken as a result of foreign interests.

5 hours later 8765769 Anonymous (Roma_flag.svg.png 800x533 35kB)
1) Flag 2) Kinda. 3) >believe It's not about believing. It exists and it's natural. Nations are natural, nation-states aren't. also >nation >country not the same thing

5 hours later 8765800 Anonymous
>>8765769 What's the difference?

5 hours later 8765849 Anonymous (fuckwit.jpg 333x500 50kB)
>>8765636 I sure am proud to be from Geographic Region! How's about that Home Team?

5 hours later 8765895 Anonymous (Schopenhauer quote reproducing having kids.png 530x101 14kB)
>>8762132 Love Schopenhauer. Great quote about nationalism OP. He had another good one about democracy, 'being ruled by fellow rats' or something. I'm an ancap, so free markets & no gov't are the way to go. inb4 hate

6 hours later 8765915 Anonymous
>>8765849 >but why shouldn't I? You could try answering the question instead of being an abject cunt. I know that I have done extremely little to contribute to what my nation is, I know that it's basically luck of the draw that I was born here. But why the fuck shouldn't I be happy with being part of this place?

6 hours later 8765969 Anonymous (fuckwitface.jpg 344x256 10kB)
>>8765915 I don't speak none of that highfalutin' fancy talk. Did you just call Australia a poofter?

6 hours later 8765978 Anonymous
>>8765969 So you can't explain then? No surprise there.

6 hours later 8766027 Anonymous (fuckwitbreasts.jpg 204x162 10kB)
>>8765978 Nah, *you're* the fuckin' poofter mate.

6 hours later 8766048 Anonymous
Sounds like you were trying to accuse me of being a retarded nationalistic bogan, realised that you were wrong and are trying to play it off as trolling now. Good work at being what you hate you fucking caveman.

6 hours later 8766062 Anonymous
>>8765800 A country is a geographic area that may or may not be occupied by a single nation and may or may not be governed by a sovereign state. A nation is a group of culturally similar people, not bound by borders (see: Roma nation, Jewish nation). Pretty close in its definition to "ethny". A State is a governement.on specific borders A nation-State is a governement that relies on a national idea for its legitimacy on a geaographic area. So they're pretty goddamn different.

6 hours later 8766098 Anonymous
>>8766062 Fair enough. I suppose that applies more to the old world. Usually they just say "people" instead of nation here. Like the aboriginal peoples instead of the aboriginal nation.

6 hours later 8766110 Anonymous (363381-8-1285951418937.jpg 600x450 97kB)
>>8766048 >Sounds like you were trying to accuse me of being a retarded nationalistic bogan, realised that you were wrong and are trying to play it off as trolling now. I'm sure that's what it'll become, chief.

6 hours later 8766127 Anonymous
>>8762132 >1) Flag I'm a Sulista. >2) ¿Would you describe yourself as a patriot? Depends what you call my "pátria". If Sul, yes. If Brazil, no. >3) ¿Do you believe in nationalism? Only in the sense I think a people should rule itself.

6 hours later 8766131 Anonymous
>>8766110 You still haven't answered my question.

6 hours later 8766167 Anonymous
Italy > No > No

6 hours later 8766170 Anonymous
It's easy to be a staunch anti-nationalist when you happen to belong to a country as shitty as India. I'd love to emigrate to Sweden/Norway/Denmark.

6 hours later 8766202 Anonymous
>>8766170 You might as well come to Australia with all the others.

6 hours later 8766237 Anonymous
>>8766131 If you were a brighter boy you'd realise that I have.

6 hours later 8766257 Anonymous
>>8766237 You still haven't. You're avoiding answering me directly.

6 hours later 8766261 Anonymous
>>8766127 >Depends what you call my "pátria". If Sul, yes. If Brazil, no. Por que? Because the north of Brazil are full of dirty apes?

6 hours later 8766284 Anonymous
>>8766261 Nah. I just don't claim they're my people, they're a bunch of other peoples for me.

6 hours later 8766307 Anonymous
>>8766098 Well, those are the scientific meanings of the terms. The term "nation" is been assimilated with "nation-State" because it's the most common form of governement nowadays, but not every nation has a state, and most nation-States are actually made of several "nations" inside it. Failing to realise that means failing to realise what is really at stake in mass immigration.

6 hours later 8766341 Anonymous
>>8766284 See, that's the thing: nation-States are way too big for people to really identify with everyone in them (see: US flamewars on what states are responsible for their country going to the shits). And that is even tho the governement mostly only pushes one national idea (that of the nation-State) thru education and media.

6 hours later 8766377 Anonymous
>>8766341 I agree with you. And your example about flamewars apply to us, too.

6 hours later 8766438 Anonymous
>>8766307 I think I fail to realise then.

7 hours later 8766941 Anonymous
>>8766438 Well, it's not the takeover of a national identity by other national identities. Since most nation-states already harbour several nations (which identify more or less strongly with the nation-state they're in), other cultures integrating shouldn't be a problem as long as they consider the nation-State they live in (say, France) as their main identity, even if they want to have a secondary identity (say, Berber, Breton, Corsican, Tamul), it's okay as long as it doesn't overshadow the main identity (as in: having traditions that go against the laws and practices of the main culture). In federal states, it's kinda different since you have strong regional nation-State identities which should be your priority identity. National identities aren't necesseraly to be pitted against each-other, they can be (and in some instances are) overlapping. The issue here is that a lot of nation-States have weak or ill-defined national identities (is France catholic or laic? is it liberty or equality that is the priority?), partly because there are already several nations within. So the entrance of new cultures makes the whole national identity thing wobly because it doesn't really reflect the different nations within equally in the 1st place.

7 hours later 8767230 Anonymous
>>8766202 Australia is too feminist/leftist for my liking. Although, would love to visit Sydney Cricket Ground and Don Bradman's house sometime.

7 hours later 8767291 Anonymous
>>8767230 Why would you visit that miniscule cricket ground? MCG is best G.

8 hours later 8767916 Anonymous (Stalin approves.jpg 220x345 27kB)
>>8762132 Show 'em, comrade!

8 hours later 8767977 Anonymous
I agree. overmen have no time for such delusions. There is nothing more important that the individual. Also, schopenhauer was /r9k/ as fuck, so I sympathise with him.

8 hours later 8768037 Anonymous
>>8767977 >/r9k/ as fuck What, he made his life's goal to put his penis in a vagina and whined all day about failing at it?

8 hours later 8768198 Anonymous
There is some universal value that goes beyond borders OP. Patriotism is obvious propaganda made for retard to make your forget the flaws of your country...

10 hours later 8770471 Anonymous (protection.jpg 640x540 198kB)
>>8762132 2) yes. 3) Sorta. People-groups exist and forming a military to fight competing militarizes is necessary for survival even if it is a loss of wealth. The greatest harm to my people/nation has been the state.

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