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2019-06-20 05:12 71510615 Anonymous THE CURRENT STATE OF SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT (programming.png 1280x720 685kB)
"Today was a mess. We were supposed to deliver the product today, but the customer started making all these requests that weren't in the spec, and claimed their new requests should go without saying..."

2 min later 71510645 Anonymous
>>71510615 Wagecuck codemonkeys deserve to suffer. No Senko-san for you.

4 min later 71510677 Anonymous
refer to the contract faggot

8 min later 71510716 Anonymous
>>71510677 The contract is whatever the customer wants for $xxxxxx.

10 min later 71510748 Anonymous
>>71510716 then quit your bitching

19 min later 71510842 Anonymous
>>71510615 Just make an invoice for the new requirements. If it's not in the spec, it's not agreed upon.

19 min later 71510843 Anonymous (okaeri (2).png 1280x720 751kB)
>>71510645 No problem

24 min later 71510894 Anonymous (programming-2.png 1280x720 497kB)
>>71510615 "I talked to my boss, but he just kept saying 'A pro meets the customers needs, just get it done'"

25 min later 71510906 Anonymous (programming-3.png 1280x720 687kB)
>>71510894

25 min later 71510908 Anonymous
>>71510615 Basically it goes like this Customer requests -> Marketing from company -> Department head -> Manager/Lead ->Coders >Problems from this Customer will change requests because of new discoveries or later decided on changes up to the last minute. It then get dumped down to coders paid by salary to finish by a set schedule by marketing.

30 min later 71510953 Anonymous (programming-4.png 1280x720 508kB)
>>71510906 Programming as a profession is a scam, a traumatic experience. You are better off doing literally anything else.

31 min later 71510967 Anonymous
>>71510908 B..but it's agile...

32 min later 71510983 Anonymous
>>71510894 >>71510906 >working overtime for free >taking last minute requests without giving the boss an unrealistically long timetable of what is or isn't possible god damn no wonder you autists get shat on

35 min later 71511021 Anonymous
>>71510615 That was the original reason agile was invented. To prevent that situation. However, it requires managers to get the fuck out of the way, and most companies still refuse to do so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGu TmOUdFbo

36 min later 71511027 Anonymous
>>71510615 I'm assuming all companies in Japan are basically sweatshops but does this happen in the civilized world? If my boss asks me to do overtime I'm obviously paid and most of the time I say no. Explaining to the customer that we might be late and setting reasonable expectations is his job, not mine.

37 min later 71511040 Anonymous
>>71510615 >what is a statement of scope

38 min later 71511060 Anonymous (1559512960996.gif 480x270 946kB)
>>71510967 The set schedule is usually marketing working up the price for the changes by same deadline as agreed upon if delivered. Company gets the profits, marketing looks good, coders hate humanity even more.

45 min later 71511139 Anonymous
>>71511021 >EP 20 years later Let me guess the tl,dr: you are doing it wrong

47 min later 71511164 Anonymous
>>71511040 A mere formalism in the first stages of the project that quickly gets outdated and nobody ever updates again.

51 min later 71511208 Anonymous
>>71511027 sometimes japanese or indian immigrants will actually make it to middle management, so yes, it happens in the civilized world, just not because of civilized people

54 min later 71511243 Anonymous
>>71511027 It happens most of the time. Marketing makes a deal of $xxxxxx delivered at date Y and that is inamovible. Then it is up to the underdogs to codemonkey until the customer is satisfied and pays. Agile made things even worse.

1 hours later 71511380 Anonymous
>>71511139 He's pretty honest in that most of the agile crap is just some bullshit he came up with on the spot. His argument that customers don't really know what they want, and so we should iterate, is still pretty valid.

1 hours later 71511494 Anonymous
>>71511027 >I'm assuming all companies in Japan are basically sweatshops but does this happen in the civilized world? Marketing making promises that are a nasty surprise to the programmers ? Yes.

1 hours later 71511608 Anonymous
>>71510615 THE HELPFUL FOX SENKEK-SAN

2 hours later 71512329 Anonymous
tfw the botnet wants me to starve

2 hours later 71512360 Anonymous
>>71511060 so much this

2 hours later 71512372 Anonymous (senko mabushi.jpg 1280x720 107kB)
>>71510843 You forgot your >>>/wsg/2910272

2 hours later 71512376 Anonymous
>>71510615 >tfw you develop software in a waterfall model and don't care for all common aimless flailing in the private sector

2 hours later 71512473 Anonymous
>>71512376 >having proper requirements in currentYear :: Date I'm jealous

2 hours later 71512554 Anonymous
>>71510983 This

2 hours later 71512592 Anonymous
>he doesn't go in at 8 and leave at 4:30 no matter what Not gonna make it

3 hours later 71512676 Anonymous
>>71511027 Not happening in Europe. There are pretty strict legal limits how much of overtime can your employer force you to do monthly, every one of them is paid of course. Can't force you to do overtime every month.

3 hours later 71513134 Anonymous
>>71510615 >>71510677 >>71510716 >>71510748 >>71510842 This is my biggest frustration in IT consulting. I repeatedly fight with our retarded and technologically illiterate sales people and business leaders about how our SOWs and contracts are written and how we scope projects. If I had a dollar for every time I heard: >>I've known this customer for years, they'd never scope creep us >>The customer wants to start this project last week, and we need to start now. >>Why are we charging so many hours for this? >>Can't the Indian staff just work 24/7 and kill themselves for this client, because I'm too pussy to say "no" to the customer? I fight for my offshore team, every time. The disgusting treatment these people get from US tech firms is horrendous.

3 hours later 71513170 Anonymous
>>71512676 That's why Europe's tech sector is 90% American. It sucks but you cant help it. Best you can do is move plans to move on to a cushier place asap. Which is where h1bs come in

4 hours later 71513481 Anonymous
how old were you when you found out that the proposed waterfall methodology and agile were the same thing? i was 27.

4 hours later 71513502 Anonymous
>>71512676 >>71513170 Actually, this isn't true. In the UK overtime is unpaid, and in the US, the US DoL requires all overtime to be paid.

4 hours later 71513647 Anonymous
>>71513481 >Projects fail because of incompetent managers >Waterfall is shit >Make it waterfall but split it up into smaller waterfalls >Call them iterations >Now throw away all the specs and replace them with shitty "user stories" >Perfect now we have an even shittier version of waterfall

4 hours later 71513834 Anonymous
>>71513502 That's why I said Europe and not shithole.

5 hours later 71514708 Anonymous
>>71510906 >unpaid overtime W E W lad, that's some bullshit.

6 hours later 71515057 Anonymous
>>71511208 so in the end is a matter of race not culture. /pol/ was right.

7 hours later 71516140 Anonymous
>>71512676 Happening in Europe (south). In a country with high unemployment the employer can abuse you everything they want. In the end it is a matter of keeping a job and sucking it up, or fighting for your rights and get fired. Usually in big consulting firms like Deloitte they expect you to work for 2 more each day for free.

8 hours later 71516193 Anonymous
>>71513647 Waterfall is superior to Agile, because requirements can be translated into wireframes and mockups which are cheaper to make and change that actual code. If the proposal gets rejected, the analyst redoes a pdf and some diagrams/mockups, and iterates until the customer agrees. Agile trying to cope with customer indecission by building the actual shit is retarded, and will never work in contracts with fixed budget and deadlines, which are 99% of projects out there.

9 hours later 71516705 Anonymous
>>71513502 Unless you are exempt from overtime, which is essentially everyone in an office here https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/f lsa/screen75.asp Overtime in the US is basically just for tradesmen

9 hours later 71517042 Anonymous
>customer

12 hours later 71518065 Anonymous
>>71516140 Wow... I'm actually glad im in murica for financial reasons.

12 hours later 71518120 Anonymous
>>71511021 > tried to use agile in the place I work > PO think it sounds good > ... a few months later > PO complains he's too busy and can't keep up with our requests for feedback > we have to make the decisions ourselves > end of sprint comes up > PO complains we made the wrong decisions

12 hours later 71518165 Anonymous
This is why I'm going into sales/marketing strategy. Recruiters love my consulting background. I get paid well, get tech startup benefits, and i don't deal with any of the consequences.

14 hours later 71519182 Anonymous
>>71510894 kek your boss is a fkn retard if he's going to do it for free

17 hours later 71520342 Anonymous (soon.jpg 800x800 44kB)
>>71510615 The anime legit makes me want to kill myself.

17 hours later 71520370 Anonymous
>>71513134 >I fight for my offshore team, every time. The disgusting treatment these people get from US tech firms is horrendous. Blame the Boomers. They are the retards of everything.

17 hours later 71520383 Anonymous
>>71520342 Be sure to Livestream it.

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