4chan archive /g/ (index)
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2019-07-21 07:22 71979834 Anonymous (Rust_programming_language_black_logo.png 1200x1200 56kB)
Why aren't you using Rust, anons?
See my other thread on why you should not use C++: > >>71977641
2 min later 71979870 Anonymous
>>71979834
Because I don't want to catch your unceasing faggotry.
4 min later 71979889 Anonymous
>>71979870
>faggotry
Fuck you. Go back to >>>/pol/ and stay inside your containment zone, /g/ doesn't use this kind of language.
5 min later 71979898 Anonymous
>>71979834
is there a programming language that trigger low IQ retards and boomers more than Rust?
6 min later 71979909 Anonymous
>>71979834
Does Rust work on System Z yet?
6 min later 71979911 Anonymous
>>71979898
Fucking THIS. I would up vote you if I could.
LEARN RUST TO TRIGGER THE BOOMERS!!!!!
6 min later 71979912 Anonymous
>don't use the mess that is C++
>instead use the mess that is Rust
USE FUCKING C JESUS FUCKING SHIT.
8 min later 71979930 Anonymous (1563683346311.jpg 888x768 64kB)
>>71979911
>LEARN RUST TO TRIGGER THE BOOMERS!!!!!
>/g/ doesn't use this kind of language.
PlebbitAnon. I...
11 min later 71979955 Anonymous
>>71979834
I hate that logo. Anytime this kind of thread gets posted with it I always think it's about Rlang, which is based and stats-pilled
19 min later 71980049 Anonymous
>>71979834
no jobs
22 min later 71980084 Anonymous
>71979911
You have to go back
23 min later 71980098 Anonymous
rustards are the new Cniles.
23 min later 71980100 Anonymous
>71980084
CHEESE YOU CUNT HOW DID YOU BREAK QUOTING
28 min later 71980168 Anonymous
>>71979834
The whole language is too opinionated and stifling.
The borrow checker is a pain in the ass, generics are worse than templates, no constexpr, no overloading, etc. UFCS but only sometimes is retarded, doing anything with mutation is a pain in the ass.
You can only do things The Rust Way™ and however good that is I will always prefer a language that lets me get things done how I want.
37 min later 71980316 Anonymous
>>71980168
>generics are worse than templates
Can you expand on this
>no overloading
What?!
38 min later 71980334 Anonymous
>>71979834
You didn't make that thread, (I did).
41 min later 71980380 Anonymous
>>71980316
Rust doesn't have ad-hoc overloading. You can implement multiple traits which have a method which has the same name but you can't overload free functions.
Rust Generics can only use operations specified by the trait bounds, which means you get early type checking but also means shit's super explicit and somewhat constrained. Unlike other languages which do this, Rust generics aren't first class (aka no Rank-N Polymorphism) so there doesn't seem to be an advantage in terms of utility.
42 min later 71980404 Anonymous
>>71980168
>The borrow checker is a pain in the ass
no, it's not. You just gave up too early
51 min later 71980515 Anonymous
>>71980380
not just operator overloading is allowed in Rust, but also method overloading is allowed using traits. You can simply have the same method name implemented for many types (excluding generics).
std is filled with such overloading
53 min later 71980539 Anonymous
>>71980515
That's literally what I just said thanks for repeating it
1 hours later 71981315 Anonymous
>>71980539
okay
2 hours later 71981612 Anonymous (pepesaurus.png 500x263 159kB)
>learn Rust
>can get a bullshit-less server running within 10 minutes
>learn C
>have to waste 10 minutes reading man pages every line I write to make sure I handle errors correctly
2 hours later 71981726 Anonymous
>>71980380
>you can't overload free functions
This kind of stifling restriction on expression is why I would never bother with Rust.
2 hours later 71981746 Anonymous
>>71980404
>sodomy is a pain in the ass
>You just gave up too early
>>71981612
>He doesn't use a server framework for free
Retard
https://github.com/google/cpp-netli b
2 hours later 71981752 Anonymous
>>71981726
I don't think this is a bad thing in a language which actually uses that restriction to implement other features (e.g. Haskell)... but Rust doesn't. Rust just limits program expressiveness because Rust is opinionated.
2 hours later 71981782 Anonymous
>>71979834
I'm too dumbo to learn programming and don't have a reason to I guess
2 hours later 71981871 Anonymous
>>71981746
>C++
Umm that’s not C
2 hours later 71982089 Anonymous
>>71980380
>overload free functions
why the fuck would you want to, you will never know the type of a function because it can have many
2 hours later 71982101 Anonymous (a.jpg 480x300 42kB)
>>71981752
>Rust just limits program expressiveness because Rust is opinionated
no it restricts expressiveness to the subset of programs which are provably memory safe
2 hours later 71982112 Anonymous
>>71982101
reminder that memory leaks are memory safe c:
3 hours later 71982551 Anonymous
>>71982101
Actually Rust restricts programs to a subset of the subset of programs which are memory safe.
3 hours later 71982706 Anonymous
>>71982551
This is a fundamental trade off in programming language design. There are programs which are correct and programs which are incorrect. Proving which is which reduces to the halting problem, so a language designer must fundamentally pick between the language allowing some incorrect programs or rejecting some correct programs.
3 hours later 71982762 Anonymous
>>71979834
Python > rust, anon. Why even learn rust when python is available. Dumbass!
4 hours later 71983689 Anonymous
>>71982551
>Actually Rust restricts programs to a subset of the subset of programs which are memory safe.
This. And that's why it's useless.
>>71982706
>This is a fundamental trade off in programming language design
No other language restrict the number of valid programs that can be expressed. Rust is a fucking mess.
4 hours later 71983767 Anonymous
>>71982762
>instances are pointers but also instances but you never know heh
>__main__
>indent has semantics
Yikes.
5 hours later 71984011 Anonymous
>>71979889
go back to r*st discord
5 hours later 71984037 Anonymous (1562647195662_2.png 3588x3596 1189kB)
5 hours later 71984078 Anonymous
>>71983689
>No other language restrict the number of valid programs that can be expressed.
Of course they do, you’ve just never pushed them. Most languages don’t provide any means for direct memory management and pointers, which inherently limits what you can do.
C requires almost everything to have a name, which limits what you can do with anonymous structs and macros unless you use gcc extensions to extend the language.
5 hours later 71984121 Anonymous
>>71979909
https://forge.rust-lang.org/platfor m-support.html
A little bit of googling suggests that s390x-unknown-linux-gnu is the target to use. It has tier 2 support,
6 hours later 71984900 Anonymous
>>71979834
because i'm using lisp
6 hours later 71984991 Anonymous (1563692242152.jpg 1000x1300 404kB)
>>71979834
>Why aren't you using Rust, anons?
I'd like to keep my dick.
6 hours later 71985008 Anonymous
>>71984078
>C requires almost everything to have a name, which limits what you can do with anonymous structs and macros unless you use gcc extensions to extend the language.
C++ doesn't have this problem and it'll be fixed in C soon enough.
7 hours later 71985681 Anonymous
I hate faggots
7 hours later 71985690 Anonymous
>>71979834
I'm not a discord tranny.
8 hours later 71986332 Anonymous
>>71984991
I use Rust. Last I checked, my dick is still here.
8 hours later 71986698 Anonymous
>>71986332
doesn't mean you're not intending to replace it with boipucci
9 hours later 71986965 Anonymous
>>71979834
t. University of Mumbai student
9 hours later 71987162 Anonymous
>>71979834
>why aren't you using Rust
I am. It's laughable how some of you NEETs are so obsessed with traps / brainwashed by identity politics that you refuse to even discuss a programming language because of a code of conduct which only applies to a single project that you'll never work on anyway -- so far, the only argument against Rust in this thread is
>muh trannies
>>71980168
>The borrow checker is a pain in the ass
It's annoying until you get comfortable with it, but once you learn why what you're doing is wrong, you'll start writing better code -- the patterns which it enforces avoid unnecessary copies, so the code you end up with is more performant and safer than your way. As for there being a Rust Way™, I'd have to disagree as well. There are a variety of zero-cost abstractions which let you achieve the same functionality differently as well as the option to write procedurally, functionally, OOP, or any combination of those, so there's not really a set way to do things like in Ruby
>>71982112
Rust's borrowing system also guarantees against memory leaks xDDD
>>71983689
In the relatively rare situations where unsafe behavior is needed for some reason, enclosing just the unsafe code in an unsafe { } block is still better than having the entire codebase potentially be unsafe; to say that Rust is useless is just stupid. Explicitly making note of where there could potentially be bad memory behavior makes security testing and debugging much easier, among other things, not to mention that all the benefits of Rust still apply to the rest of the codebase
>inb4 dilate, le sjw bogeyman, etc
9 hours later 71987195 Anonymous
How do I learn it? Is it a good noob language if I've literally never koded before?
9 hours later 71987230 Anonymous (20190621044440kirscheid3268825.png 696x678 371kB)
>>71979834
... But I am!
>>71987195
It's not good if you haven't programmed before, now that doesn't mean you don't have it in you but it'd be good knowing something like C first since it's primitive and easy to pick up anyway. It also has a lot of concepts from functional programming.
The official resources are pretty good https://www.rust-lang.org/learn
9 hours later 71987245 Anonymous
>>71986332
Packers don't count
9 hours later 71987293 Anonymous
>>71987195
If you've never written code before then you should probably start with a simpler language like C (or Python if you wanna focus on the very basics while still being productive), then move on to something like Rust.
Most Rust tutorials I've seen tend to assume you already know how to program in some other language, while Python was practically purpose-built to teach basic programming concepts without prior knowledge.
9 hours later 71987308 Anonymous
>>71987293
Seconding this.
10 hours later 71987397 Anonymous
>>71987195
Rust will teach you good habits and is already seeing widespread adoption, so I'd say that while Python would be a bit easier, starting with Rust would serve you better. The documentation "book" is a really good resource, so if you take
your time and work through that you'll be off to a great start
>>71987230
for a new programmer I'd think C would be more confusing in a lot of ways actually. learning good programming fundamentals is easier without worrying about direct memory management (and the compiler would teach him to write better code should he go on to use C in the future)
>>71987162
based
10 hours later 71987455 Anonymous
>>71979912
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
10 hours later 71987478 Anonymous
>>71987455
C is the white man's language.
10 hours later 71987499 Anonymous
>>71987478
trannyfags btfo epically haha
10 hours later 71987531 Anonymous
>>71987478
omg thank you anon I will start using C right awaydjgoemfo295+_+$82;&mfkrmnlsp
woops looks like I forgot my null terminator again. 1488 though right anon? Haha xD
10 hours later 71987631 Anonymous
>>71987531
>forgetting your null terminator
Step your game up, pajeet. Your mental incompetence is why programming will always be a white man's field.
10 hours later 71987747 Anonymous
>>71987631
Yes sir sorry sir. I will do so once I am done writing our mathematical functions for all the different integer types.
10 hours later 71987807 Anonymous
>>71987195
No
Learn Go first
10 hours later 71987812 Anonymous (1489134187102.png 1248x1920 1641kB)
>>71987397
Sure it would confuse them! That's why I recommend learning C, you can't use it without learning low level fundementals. It doesn't hold your hand.
10 hours later 71987971 Anonymous
>>71987812
I'm so horny and lonely
11 hours later 71988081 Anonymous
>>71987812
starting with Rust would teach him the fundamentals as well, with the added bonus that he'd learn safer, better performing patterns right off the bat. there is virtually no reason to use C over Rust for any new project except for certain embedded cases (and even then, embedded systems are increasingly shipping with Rust toolchains)
11 hours later 71988172 Anonymous
>>71987812
Surely you'd want a language that holds the user's hand at least while they're grasping the fundamentals, right? There's no point throwing a kid into the deep end of the pool and expecting him to come out of it knowing how to swim.
I'd say Rust actually makes sense as a first language in this case, since not only would it correct you for simple mistakes, it can also catch more complicated mistakes that result from logic errors and lets the user learn how to work around them. Once something like that becomes second nature, they could pretty much use any language they want.
11 hours later 71988224 Anonymous
>>71987195
I'm also learning it, so I decided to make a small 2d game (see the past /dpt/). It's a lot of fun, and you'll learn quite a bit, so I recommend it.
12 hours later 71988737 Anonymous
>Ugly, terrible syntax, just like c++
>Have to spend most development time just to use bc, why not just do it in c++.
>C++ is still faster, and has a lot more libraries available.
12 hours later 71988744 Anonymous
>>71988737
not a single correct argument
try harder, retard
12 hours later 71988778 Anonymous
>>71987478
Litearly the most popular programming language in India. Nice try Cnile.
12 hours later 71988812 Anonymous (1562214780040.png 757x720 510kB)
>>71987971
Me too, anon, me too.
12 hours later 71988837 Anonymous
>>71988744
I just told you why rust is useless. It will be a dead language soon, as happened to D, because there's not a really good reason to use Rust.
12 hours later 71988849 Anonymous
>>71979834
firefox written in rust. and firefox is shit,
12 hours later 71988850 Anonymous
>>71988837
>there's not a really good reason to use Rust
iff you're a retard
12 hours later 71988903 Anonymous
>>71988837
Not the anon you replied to but this post here >>71988737 is completely false, in every aspect.
>syntax this and that
it's syntactically consistent unlike C++, "ugly" is subjective
>have to spend most of the time to use bc
no you don't. you spend maybe a few seconds when you're thinking of how to model some part of your program memory safe and it's usually obvious
>why not just do it in c++
why not just do it in c lol? because both languages are criminally mediocre in terms of modern programming concepts
>c++ is still faster
no it isn't. enjoy your default copy semantics, by the way
12 hours later 71988906 Anonymous
>>71979834
Applications using C++ now are mainly applications that have lifespans longer than 20 years. There's nothing inherently wrong with C++, and no reason to change for large projects.
Not many companies will completely rewrite existing code if it doesn't accompany a larger change that would necessitate a significant rewrite in itself.
And because of old fucks that can't learn and lack of human capital it will take a few more years of growth in rust for large projects to consider using it. Even in the last two years there have been significant language changes and corporations don't want another Python 3 issue which is enough to shelve the question of rust entirely.
Also, don't underestimate stupidity. I have personal first hand experience with a large company considering to switch to rust, and everything about that company makes my blood boil so I'll just stop right here.
12 hours later 71988926 Anonymous
>>71988850
>you're a retard
dilate.
13 hours later 71989109 Anonymous
>>71987162
wrong, nothing in Rust prevents you from making a basic ass reference cycle, you don't even know the language you're shilling for retard
13 hours later 71989486 Anonymous (1559220271086.png 719x459 485kB)
>>71979834
What do you program in Rust
14 hours later 71989656 Anonymous
>>71989486
Things I've already written in Python
14 hours later 71989687 Anonymous
>>71987195
learn a lisp
14 hours later 71989710 Anonymous
>>71989656
And what would that be
14 hours later 71989728 Anonymous
>>71979889
What /pol/ has to do with it? Tranny, are you okay?
14 hours later 71989757 Anonymous
>>71988837
rust will succeed because it doesn't allow a retard to write awful code and because it doesn't allow a genius to make beautiful code.
14 hours later 71989940 Anonymous
>>71979834
I like Rust a lot, but shit like this in critical or popular libraries is a problem: https://github.com/actix/actix-web/ pull/968
Or even >>71987162 (memory leaks are explicitly safe in Rust, the type system supports affine types, not linear aka drop will not run twice, but may never run).
Obviously there are bad programmers and programmers who misunderstand the language in C++ too, but the Rust team should do everything they can to make it very clear exactly what the language guarantees and how. It should be obvious, but just because "the rust type system and careful auditing of the occasional unsafe block can free me from a common class of bugs" doesn't mean "I can install 100 random packages from cargo and assume there are no bugs".
Rust doesn't guarantee your code is correct. Rust does allow you to more easily write correct code, by providing a powerful and expressive type system.
15 hours later 71990389 Anonymous
>>71987162
>Rust's borrowing system also guarantees against memory leaks
It doesn't.
Make Rc hold references to each other and remove Rcs from stack. And you got a memory leak.
But it doesn't matter as it still prevent undefined behaviour and you would have to use garbage collector otherwise.
>>71987195
No, don't do it. You should learn C first as Rust is quite sophisticated and complex language.
>>71989940
>that PR
Lol what a fag. Why does he even maintain such a project if he doesn't get rust safety conventions.
15 hours later 71990400 Anonymous
>>71989940
>powerful and expressive type system.
i thought this retarded catchphrase was exclusive to haskell
15 hours later 71990416 Anonymous
>>71989486
Renderer, raytracers, game servers, web services, etc.
15 hours later 71990425 Anonymous
>>71990416
what do any of those things hae to do with each other
15 hours later 71990450 Anonymous
>>71990425
Require high performance, high stability, and deals with data instead of user interface, I guess.
15 hours later 71990458 Anonymous
>>71979834
>>71979889
>>71979898
>>71979911
>>71980404
>>71981612
>>71982762
>>71986332
>>71987162
>>71987195
>>71987230
>>71987397
>>71987499
>>71987531
>>71987747
>>71987807
>>71988081
>>71988172
>>71988744
>>71988850
>>71988903
>>71989757
>>71989940
D I L A T E
I
L
A
T
E
15 hours later 71990471 Anonymous
>>71987478
That must be why it's so insecure.
16 hours later 71990591 Anonymous
>>71979834
When was the first time you had a justified reason to use unsafe, /g/?
Mine was when I had to make a set of keys for a hashmap so that when a user tries to delete one of those keys I could prevent it, but copying all the strings would just waste memory since I could prove that during runtime the keys are never deleted before they're removed from the set, and making the set store references wouldn't work since I can't prove it statically, so I used raw pointers to get around this and save on unnecessary copying.
16 hours later 71990776 Anonymous
>>71989109
>wrong, nothing in Rust prevents you from making a basic ass reference cycle
The entire borrowing system prevents that. There's no way to make a cycle out of borrowed references.
You can use reference-counted pointers (Rc<T>) to create a reference cycle if you're really trying, but the documentation explicitly warns about that.
>>71990591
>When was the first time you had a justified reason to use unsafe, /g/?
I'm currently doing a bunch of ffi, trying to use a library which uses GObject. This project has taken me from "I don't know if I'll ever need unsafe" to "75% of this is unsafe and I am drowning in segfaults, send help".
16 hours later 71990952 Anonymous
>>71990471
topkek
16 hours later 71991039 Anonymous
>>71979889
Can’t handle it?
Leave, nigger.
17 hours later 71991097 Anonymous (c-rust-rewrite.png 600x382 166kB)
17 hours later 71991099 Anonymous
>>71990591
Manually optimizing 128bit fixed point multiplication using inline asm.
Also mapping GPU memory. These two are the only time I had to use unsafe.
17 hours later 71991114 Anonymous
>>71979834
>on why you should not use C++
honestly? honest to god? I'd use Rust far more if it were advertised as its own thing with its own strengths and weaknesses as a language than "better than C++, and C++ is also horrible"
17 hours later 71991127 Anonymous (rust.png 700x1007 820kB)
>>71979834
>>71979889
>>71979898
>>71979911
>>71980404
>>71981612
>>71982762
>>71986332
>>71987162
>>71987195
>>71987230
>>71987397
>>71987499
>>71987531
>>71987747
>>71987807
>>71988081
>>71988172
>>71988744
>>71988850
>>71988903
>>71989757
>>71989940
17 hours later 71991137 Anonymous
>>71987162
>but once you learn why what you're doing is wrong
Why are Rust programmers so self-righteous. No Haskell programmer has ever told me that 'immutable bindings are wrong!!'. Rust programmers cannot handle the fact that different languages are suitable to different domains.
>the patterns which it enforces avoid unnecessary copies
this is blatantly untrue, as in order to not violate borrowing rules, .clone() is often needed where a simple reference& would do in C++ and no copying is needed.
17 hours later 71991149 Anonymous
>>71987531
stupid point, there's literally no way to 'forget' a null terminator in C. All string literals implicitly have them. And if you're constructing a string character by character, well, you're already doing some dumb shit so god help you anyway.
17 hours later 71991254 Anonymous
>>71991149
It's a joke anon; I've never had such a problem either in C. C-strings are still terrible though.
17 hours later 71991340 Anonymous
Millions of programmers are using C and C++ while Rust fags are writing blog and reddit posts promoting Rust.
If you want your language to become popular, just write cool stuff in it, there is no secret.
It looks like Rust is way too restrictive, which explains why almost no one is doing anything significant with it except hardcore zealots (and even then, they don't have much to show for it).
If you want a safe language you'd go all the way and use Java, C# or Go anyway. And if you want to do system programming you're generally in a world of pain regardless, so you might as well go with the language that has all the tools and libraries.
17 hours later 71991395 Anonymous
Besides, the Rust marketing is completely nonsensical.
They're trying to do after C programmers. But if C programmers really wanted some memory safety, they'd move to C++ (and indeed many of them, including myself, did).
C++ pretty much solves the problem. You have sane string support in the standard library, and even better if you use a third-party library like fmt. You don't have to allocate crap all over the place; in a modern C++ program it's common to have a handful of memory allocations (generally when implementing custom array or buffer classes, or to have aligned arrays).
And you have top-notch tools like sanitizers and Valgrind.
Finally, Rust zealots are completely misguided if they think that the language is the right place to eliminate bugs. If you replace undefined behavior with an array out of bounds exception, you still have a bug. The reason we don't see those in Java or Python programs is because you have syntactic support and things like iterators, which are also available in C++ now. And, obviously, the only real way to eliminate bugs is testing, and it's not clear that Rust has better testing facilities than C++.
17 hours later 71991420 Anonymous
>>71991254
>C-strings are still terrible though.
C strings are not even strings.
But C++ has std::string and std::string_view making the problem with C strings pretty much disappear.
Rust fags disingenuously use the example of C-non-strings to try and get C++ programmers to adopt Rust.
17 hours later 71991433 Anonymous
Finally, every single thing in Rust is undefined behavior, because the trannies are too busy writing code of conducts instead of writing an actual formal specification.
18 hours later 71991536 Anonymous
>>71991137
>this is blatantly untrue, as in order to not violate borrowing rules, .clone() is often needed where a simple reference& would do in C++ and no copying is needed.
Provide an example.
18 hours later 71991565 Anonymous
>>71979834
>Why aren't you using Rust, anons?
Language wise? BC is a massive cognitive overhead. Im not writing a kernel here.
Ecosystem wise? Rust on mobile sucks. Rust GUI on desktop IDK it's good I guess with the new QML bindings generator.
18 hours later 71991599 Anonymous
>>71979834
>Why aren't you using Rust
no good IDE and probably never will be
18 hours later 71991898 Anonymous
>>71991433
OOB array access in Rust is perfectly well-defined behavior.
18 hours later 71991998 Anonymous
>>71980049
this
19 hours later 71992256 Anonymous
>>71991395
It's much much easier to debug failed compile build than runtime memory corruption.
19 hours later 71992313 Anonymous
>>71991433
>not having a specification is the same as nasal demons
Cniles are grasping at straws
19 hours later 71992614 Anonymous
Seems like Microsoft is considering Rust https://msrc-blog.microsoft.com/201 9/07/18/we-need-a-safer-systems-pro gramming-language/
20 hours later 71992802 Anonymous
>>71988837
>there's not a really good reason to use C++ or C over Rust
FTFY
20 hours later 71992822 Anonymous
>>71989109
the borrow checker exists precisely to prevent that
20 hours later 71992852 Anonymous
>>71992822
Borrow checker doesn't prevent that.
RTFM
20 hours later 71992902 Anonymous
>>71991395
uh anon, Rust has better string support and iterators
also
>logical bugs exist so removing an entire class of bugs isn't significant
It's also notable that it's much harder to track bugs down at runtime than if they are caught at compile time
20 hours later 71992979 Anonymous
>>71992852
Give an example that doesn't use Rc<T>'s.
20 hours later 71993062 Anonymous
>>71992979
>give me an example of reference cycle
>but don't use smart pointers
Where do you think reference cycles become a problem and leak memory, brainlet?
20 hours later 71993110 Anonymous (eDQvTAB.jpg 1080x1331 99kB)
>Why yes, I haven't upgraded my PC for over five years. How could you tell?
20 hours later 71993142 Anonymous
>>71993062
It's a very, very rare situation to be in and even then Rust provides a solution that safeguards against it in the Weak<T>
20 hours later 71993168 Anonymous
>>71993142
Wow it's almost exactly like sepples for the last 8 years
20 hours later 71993378 Anonymous
Why did RUST have to be a new lamguage instead of a C preprocessor? Was there any real reason for it?
20 hours later 71993412 Anonymous
>>71993378
aggressive guerrilla marketing.
that's literally it.
merit doesn't get in the door, attention does.
21 hours later 71993599 Anonymous
>>71993378
C is obsolete and retarded. Is it that difficult to understand for Cniles?
21 hours later 71993655 Anonymous
>>71993378
Because it makes it potentially faster than C.
22 hours later 71994136 Anonymous
>>71993378
What's the point of that? Does it make you feel better if it's using your all-glorious C language underneath, Cnile?
22 hours later 71994177 Anonymous
>>71993655
Nothing about Rust's semantics makes it potentially faster than C.
22 hours later 71994273 Anonymous
>>71991898
You literally can't read. If there's no spec, behavior is not "defined."
22 hours later 71994299 Anonymous
>>71993599
Rust is immature and retarded. Is this so difficult to understand for rustrannies?
22 hours later 71994316 Anonymous
>>71994273
>write a program in Rust
>technically everything is implemented via UB
>program works anyway
Who's the retard now, Cniles?
22 hours later 71994649 Anonymous
>>71994299
Featurewise, Rust is hundreds of times more mature than C.
22 hours later 71994709 Anonymous
>>71994649
>I don't understand what maturity means
22 hours later 71994752 Anonymous
>>71994709
Maturity means being able to solve problems the correct way. C can't do that because half of its features are prehistoric shit you should never use.
22 hours later 71994842 Anonymous
>>71993378
The basic problem with adding safety to C is that a pointer can mean many things. In real C code, you rely on comments and other documentation to help keep track of when an allocation should be freed, and whether a function will make copies of whatever data you give it. There have been many attempts to make this information available for static analysis, but they've all added new syntax to C and were therefore automatically rejected by C programmers.
C++ has an easier path forward here, because it already has multiple pointer types (references and smart pointers) that encode ownership concepts. It will still need new syntax for certain purposes, but it's on a faster path than C to getting safety annotations into the standard.
24 hours later 71995683 Anonymous
>>71979834
I like my penis the way it is.
25 hours later 71996173 Anonymous
>>71979834
>no standard
Into the bin it goes
25 hours later 71996259 Anonymous
>>71996173
>Let's make more and more blatant bullshit up, we're gonna sound smart for sure!
25 hours later 71996583 Anonymous
You will never be a women.
25 hours later 71996816 Anonymous (gender_ferris.png 1920x1080 118kB)
25 hours later 71996837 Anonymous (imagine_being_this_cucked.png 771x578 83kB)
26 hours later 71996884 Anonymous (1552141900864.png 512x812 340kB)
>>71996837
>>71996816
Jesus christ that looks horrifying.
26 hours later 71997150 Anonymous
>>71996259
>Let's make more and more blatant bullshit up
Please show me the Rust standard?
Standards are important for a lot of people who use C and C++. Without a standard document, there is no way to understand what a program should do.
Tell me again how that makes programs safer?
26 hours later 71997214 Anonymous
>>71997150
Means you can write an abomination of spaghetti code and it will still run.
Kinda wonder how this will not blow back performance wise.
Or teach horrible code practices.
26 hours later 71997309 Anonymous
>>71997214
ISO standardization tends to fossilize the worst parts of the language and makes it hard to implement significant improvements which might break compatibility.
If you want your ancient language which will never significantly advance beyond adding committee features on top of the heap, then pick an ISO languages.
26 hours later 71997380 Anonymous
>>71997309
If Rust wants to be an acceptable language for use in medical devices, vehicle firmware, etc. it needs standardization.
If Rust wants to replace C++ and C in spaces like HFT, it needs a specification.
26 hours later 71997392 Anonymous
>>71997380
Rust isn't a finished language, what would be the point in standardizing it before it's ready? Standardizing an incomplete language would be a mistake.
26 hours later 71997430 Anonymous
>>71997392
C and C++ were standardized immediately upon their release to the public. They've never changed since. Now it's too late for Rust to follow their example.
26 hours later 71997446 Anonymous
>>71997392
>Rust isn't a finished language
Then why does it have a > 1.0 version? Strict semantic versioning my ass.
Java had a specification at 1.0. Rust doesn't, and probably won't for several years to come. Rust isn't suitable for use today, and won't be for the foreseeable future, for many of the domains where C and C++ dominate.
26 hours later 71997499 Anonymous
>>71997430
>C and C++ were standardized immediately upon their release to the public
Bullshit, that took a decade
>Rust isn't suitable for use today, and won't be for the foreseeable future, for many of the domains where C and C++ dominate.
Which are a shrinking piece of the software pie.
27 hours later 71997575 Anonymous
>>71997499
>Which are a shrinking piece of the software pie.
Yes, but not because of Rust. People that are getting paid to write in C and C++ are either working on a legacy application or working in the areas where Rust is too immature to be useful. If it's legacy, the chances are high that a future rewrite wouldn't choose Rust, but an application language.
Rust is a language for nobody but Mozilla.
27 hours later 71997598 Anonymous
>>71997575
Good thing Mozilla is bankrupt (will be filing ch. 11 next week)
27 hours later 71997609 Anonymous
>>71991599
CLion with the Rust plugin solved that issue for me.
27 hours later 71997621 Anonymous
>>71997575
Still need C/C++ for Java for example through JNI.
It can otherwise not communicate on the hardware level.
27 hours later 71997682 Anonymous
>>71997621
A Rust user could use the FFI to provide the appropriate JNI bindings.
But it begs the question - why rewrite working JNI libraries in Rust? Granted, rewriting existing code is what Rustaceans seem to do best.
27 hours later 71997712 Anonymous
>>71997598
or Google will just bail them out again
27 hours later 71997739 Anonymous
>>71997682
>A Rust user could use the FFI to provide the appropriate JNI bindings.
How the hell would that work? What happens if the borrow checker and the garbage collector get in a fight? Does your computer take T and grow a dick out of its exhaust pipe?
27 hours later 71997769 Anonymous
>>71997739
that's what unsafe is for anon.
otherwise C interop would be impossible and there would be no way to get people to adopt Rust
27 hours later 71997773 Anonymous
>>71997739
You need to program that yourself on the C/C++ side dunno about Rust.
I still have my private parts.
27 hours later 71997865 Anonymous
>>71997575
wait, Rust's killer app could be libra
27 hours later 71997912 Anonymous
>>71997865
Libra isn't real, even if it is, it isn't written in Rust, even if it was, it will fail and be designed to fail as the next step in Zuckerberg's master plan (with no survivors)
27 hours later 71998059 Anonymous
>>71996816
why the fuck would you use plural "they" for a single crab, when perfectly neutral "it" exists?
are all rust coders this retarded?
27 hours later 71998083 Anonymous
>>71997150
>Please show me the Rust standard?
The standard library is a standard. Also there are interfaces with C/C++ libraries, retard.
>m-muh ABI
Never been necessary.
27 hours later 71998165 Anonymous
>>71994177
Monomorphism is faster than runtime void pointer checks
27 hours later 71998203 Anonymous
>>71998083
>The standard library is a standard. Also there are interfaces with C/C++ libraries, retard.
Great. You still don't have the specification of the language itself. It's frankly ridiculous to compare the Rust stdlib reference to other standards. It is nowhere near as thorough as, say, the C standard library.
28 hours later 71998287 Anonymous
>>71997598
How do you know that?
28 hours later 71998356 Anonymous
>>71998203
Language works. You can learn it with the book and docs. Never had a segfault in Rust when adding integers. Also, you didn't read those standards you claim to jack off to.
29 hours later 71999019 Anonymous
https://msrc-blog.microsoft.com/201 9/07/22/why-rust-for-safe-systems-p rogramming/
29 hours later 71999081 Anonymous (4E04D376-5D11-4D0E-93FE-E272B5D6D309.jpg 1332x690 310kB)
>>71998203
The C stdlib als has barely anything in it, and more than half the functions just safer versions of legacy implementations.
29 hours later 71999092 Anonymous
>>71998356
>Also, you didn't read those standards you claim to jack off to.
Yes, you do, if you work in any domain where buggy software is not acceptable.
You can't build aircrafts or pacemakers with a language that doesn't have specified semantics.
29 hours later 71999103 Anonymous
>>71999081
>The C stdlib als has barely anything in it
Yes. But it is specified very well, compared to Rust.
29 hours later 71999122 Anonymous
>>71999092
>reading comprehension
29 hours later 71999138 Anonymous
>>71999122
Yeah, you read the standards if you work with the language on a daily basis?
jesus christ, catch up
31 hours later 72000160 Anonymous
Rust developers are brainlets who don't understand how safety-critical software is being written.
Undefined behavior in C and C++ just means you are telling the compiler "it's fine, I've checked it before and this will never happen".
This can mean different things:
1. You actually have not checked it before
2. You actually did, using formal specifications and code generation (C used as an intermediate language)
3. You actually did, using comprehensive tests
4. You actually did, using static code analysis and coverage testing
Most open source developers are in 1. But people developing serious software are in 2, 3 and 4, which explains why the most reliable software ever is written in C, despite it being an "unsafe" language according to those Rust trannies.
Now, if you write any sort of serious software you can't get away with 2, 3 or 4. So the language here does not actually matter. It's quite often C because it's a simple, well-understood language, it could be C++ or Ada or indeed Rust. Except that Rust has no standard, which makes it pointless to invest time and money in developing things like code generators or static analyzers.
Anyway, Rust was not even meant for safety-critical programs in the first place, so maybe it's unfair to judge it in this domain.
31 hours later 72000199 Anonymous
So the thing Rust was designed for, is computer security. To prevent all the CVEs linked to things like buffer overflows, format string vulnerabilities, etc.
Well, the answer in this case is quite simply to use C++ instead of C.
It has sane strings (virtually eliminating all string-related vulnerabilities), it has proper collections (virtually eliminating all buffer overflows) and so on and so forth.
They are VERY disingenuous when they talk about the "C/C++" vulnerabilities when in reality 99% of them are just C-related vulnerabilities that would make no sense in C++.
Which is also why they are doomed to fail to convince C developers to adopt their language. If C developers don't want to move to C++, they're not going to move to Rust, and even more alien language to them.
31 hours later 72000234 Anonymous
They are disingenuous because they talk about the code that it is possible to write, and not the typical code.
Yes, it's possible to write old-school C-style code in C++. Just like it's possible to write everything in an unsafe block in Rust.
But that's not what people typically do.
31 hours later 72000265 Anonymous
An example of this disingenuous behavior where they conflate C and C++ (all the issues they mention are in C programs):
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ a3mgxb/the-internet-has-a-huge-cc-p roblem-and-developers-dont-want-to- deal-with-it
Because it's from Vice, they even wrote it as if it was some gender identity bullshit:
>Memory unsafety is currently a scourge for our industry. But it doesn't have to be the case that every Windows or Firefox release fixes dozens of avoidable security vulnerabilities. We need to shift ourselves from treating each memory unsafety vulnerability as an isolated incident, and instead treat them as the deeply rooted systemic problem they are.
"Deeply rooted systemic problem" is tranny-speak not hacker-speak.
31 hours later 72000304 Anonymous
>>72000199
Sure, modern C++ is nice. However the advantage of rust is that it doesn't have all the legacy and discouraged practices. It was designed from scratch and has many features that C++ is missing. C++ might have good safe structures, but Rust goes one step ahead and ensure the rest of your code is safe as well. Also it stdlib is designed with utf8 in mind which is a huge plus imo.
31 hours later 72000305 Anonymous
>>72000160
>>72000199
>>72000234
>>72000265
Real swell copypasta my dude
I'll put in a good word for you with Eric
31 hours later 72000317 Anonymous
>>72000199
I do not think they expect veteran programmers to move, nigger.
They are expecting new programmers who have some knowledge of C.
That is.
For a guys programming with go-to assembly is then fucking bitch and imperative programming it is too restrictive but for us it is more natural to program in C/python than asm.
Honestly, the language is for niggas who want all the benefits from parallelism and concurrent programming without c errors.
31 hours later 72000349 Anonymous
>>71979870
fpbp
31 hours later 72000358 Anonymous
>>72000304
And the disadvantage of Rust is it's actually less secure because it's so immature there hasn't been enough time to check the specification for bugs, if people write code in it and it turns out there's a design flaw then it's game over
31 hours later 72000374 Anonymous
>>72000358
There is no specification to check
31 hours later 72000385 Anonymous
>>71979834
why use rust and not LLVM IL?
31 hours later 72000390 Anonymous
RUST IS FOR TRANNIES
However, I recommend Rust because it is genuinely a good language and we need to take it from the trannies and make it the white man's language.
Just think that at one point America was the savage man's land, but look at what we built on top of it.
35 hours later 72002243 Anonymous
>>72000358
It doesn't work like that, Rajeesh. If you find an unsoundness bug, you fix it, you don't just give up and go home.
35 hours later 72002321 Anonymous
>>72002243
If there's a bug in Rust, that bug is also in all code ever written in Rust.
35 hours later 72002393 Anonymous
>>72002321
This is what editions are for, to allow the Rust developers to make backwards incompatible changes when necessary.
See all the changes they made for 2018 edition as an example, some of which can cause older code to not compile, especially if you have warnings set to raise errors.
35 hours later 72002565 Anonymous
Because i'm using C+ (not C++) while waiting for Jai.
39 hours later 72003857 Anonymous
>>72000304
>Sure, modern C++ is nice. However the advantage of rust is that it doesn't have all the legacy and discouraged practices
I'm cringing heavily.
>legacy
Every FUCKING time, you try to spin a strength of C++ as a weakness
>discouraged practices
Rust is a fucking CULT.
>>72000265
That Vice attacked C++ tells me all I need to know about Rust
39 hours later 72003860 Anonymous (flower.jpg 225x225 18kB)
>>72000160
>>72000199
>it's another cnile-pretends-to-be-an-aircraft-en gineer-to-justify-his-50-year-old-l anguage episode
39 hours later 72003910 Anonymous
>>72003860
This. Most of these retards are either unemployable boomers or just pretentious NEETs who have no idea what they are talking about
39 hours later 72004135 Anonymous
>>72000160
>2. You actually did, using formal specifications and code generation (C used as an intermediate language)
>3. You actually did, using comprehensive tests
>4. You actually did, using static code analysis and coverage testing
>Most open source developers are in 1. But people developing serious software are in 2, 3 and 4, which explains why the most reliable software ever is written in C, despite it being an "unsafe" language according to those Rust trannies.
Googer here. 100% true.
43 hours later 72005871 Anonymous
>>72003860
>>72003910
Just as bad as the gophers.
>we depend on feature X
>no you don't, fuck you moron
43 hours later 72005964 Anonymous
>>71979834
You will never be a woman.
43 hours later 72005974 Anonymous (1552135368866.jpg 1280x720 138kB)
>>71993655
>potentially
43 hours later 72005975 Anonymous
>>72005964
you will never get one
43 hours later 72006030 Anonymous
>>72003910
>>72003860
I can already tell you never programmed anywhere near hardware level.
43 hours later 72006047 Anonymous
>>72000390
>and make it the white man's language
Have you visited their website and community you retard its pozzed as fuck.
43 hours later 72006053 Anonymous
>>72005871
Formal methods are not a feature of a programming language.
>>72006030
>yeah so I used the B-method to make a shitty USB ventilator I'm such a hacker yay
43 hours later 72006083 Anonymous
>>72006030
t. never programmed anywhere near hardware level
also name one thing that Rust cannot do near hardware level, retard
43 hours later 72006127 Anonymous
>>72006053
Granted, but, as others have said, you can't create reliable software in the absence of a specification. That's a different statement than
>Formal methods are not a feature of a programming language
43 hours later 72006135 Anonymous
>>72000160
>Undefined behavior in C and C++ just means you are telling the compiler "it's fine, I've checked it before and this will never happen".
100% wrong. UB means that it's up to the compiler what will happen. Switching a compiler might break it. An update might break it. Etc. The entire C """ecosystem""" depends on compiler quirks and conventions.
43 hours later 72006144 Anonymous (1530607611071.jpg 600x532 41kB)
>>72006083
>Meanwhile Rust needs a lib to program on hardware or even chips
Come back when rust can program a whole automation project with less than 1100 bytes.
43 hours later 72006164 Anonymous
>>72006135
>The entire C """ecosystem""" depends on compiler quirks and conventions.
source?
43 hours later 72006168 Anonymous
What is this obsession over specifications? Why do you need them if you don't have multiple implementations?
Also what's it with white girls and dogs?
43 hours later 72006174 Anonymous
>>72006164
That's literally what UB is he just told you
43 hours later 72006176 Anonymous
>>72006144
Not him but even if it was true what would be bad about it?
43 hours later 72006197 Anonymous
>>71994752
This. I love how with C11, C finally got non-insane string manipulation functions (string.h) strncpy_s etc. But still doesn't even matter, C99 is still barely used so we'll be stuck with ANSI C forever.
44 hours later 72006230 Anonymous
>>72006168
>Why do you need them if you don't have multiple implementations?
First, without a specification, you can't perform any non-trivial optimization because you can't reason through if an optimization is behavior preserving. Your language's implementation is slower as a result.
Second, as a user, are you relying on a bug in a compiler? Or could the next update of the compiler subtly break your code? There's no way of knowing.
44 hours later 72006253 Anonymous
>>72006174
>That's literally what UB is he just told you
Yes, but serious projects try to avoid undefined behavior, and have very good test suites to expose it (e.g. SQLite).
Is there a source demonstrating how the K most popular C libraries or applications depend on compiler quirks and conventions?
44 hours later 72006290 Anonymous
>>72006176
Cause in production of a product you got chips who only have like 2k of ROM space cause it cheaper and they even use assembly for that over C sometimes cause its that important.
44 hours later 72006295 Anonymous
>>72006253
I'm pretty sure the Linux kernel relies heavily on gcc extensions
44 hours later 72006301 Anonymous
>>72006290
Rust let's you use inline asm unlike standard C
44 hours later 72006375 Anonymous (1553426455150.jpg 243x258 17kB)
Holy fuck Rustfags are deluded
>Hurr why do cniles use C/C++
Cause its the industry standard for certain industries like Aeronautics and Medical industry
>B-but Rust can use C/C++ libs too!
Then why change! jesus use C/C++.
Try to explain that to your boss where everything is set in stone.
>W-will be the n-next best thing we promise!
And nothing to show for it except some pozzed companies who have extra funds for diversity experiments .
44 hours later 72006393 Anonymous
>>72006375
The question was why do you use C++. Nobody itt works in medical or aeronautics
44 hours later 72006394 Anonymous
>>72006301
I don't give a fuck i'm only interested how tight the bytes are after compilation.
Which C blows it out of the water.
44 hours later 72006407 Anonymous
>>72006394
Asm blows C out of the water?
44 hours later 72006413 Anonymous
>>72006375
Microsoft is looking into using Rust though
44 hours later 72006438 Anonymous
>>72006393
AI?
Anything embedded?
Accounting?
Broker software?
Car industry?
Anything with heavy calculations and where speed is of utmost importance.
Even Java/JVM programmers use C for the heavy lifting.
But you wouldn't ask these questions if you knew so.
44 hours later 72006439 Anonymous
>>72006413
They already have
https://mobile.twitter.com/maxgortm an/status/1012011425353461760
44 hours later 72006480 Anonymous
>>72006438
https://medium.com/@ly.lee/visual-p rogramming-with-embedded-rust-yes-w e-can-with-apache-mynewt-and-google -blockly-8b67ef7412d7
44 hours later 72006492 Anonymous
>>72006413
>Microsoft
>Talks about pozzed companies
>Mentions next big pozzed company after Google
You guys are full of shit kek.
44 hours later 72006498 Anonymous
>>72006480
They use a lib for that.
Into the trash it goes.
Its bloat after compilation.
44 hours later 72006502 Anonymous
Every statement in a rust program is undefined behavior because there is no specification
44 hours later 72006552 Anonymous
>>72006502
Yet the code is way more predictable since everything is well documented and implemented in rustc
44 hours later 72006560 Anonymous
>>72006301
How can using inline asm be safe?
44 hours later 72006571 Anonymous
>>72006127
>you can't create reliable software in the absence of a specification
which C doesn't have.
44 hours later 72006645 Anonymous
>>72006571
Ever heard of getting gud?
I know everything that in your worldview, that isn't "safe" is bigoted and patriarchy and shit.
And its simple you tell the computer something wrong it will flip out.
45 hours later 72007261 Anonymous
>>72006645
Have you ever tried not sucking dick?
46 hours later 72007880 Anonymous
>>72006498
This is what people don't get about programming. Serious code does not use libraries. Period. Any language that depends on libs for functionality is doomed to left-pad syndrome. Rust is already showing this, there are dozens of "crates" out there.
46 hours later 72007947 Anonymous
>>72007880
We should probably get rid of high level languages like C too. Anything above hand-crafted asm is bloat.
47 hours later 72008352 Anonymous
>>71979889
>/g/ doesn't use this kind of language
This is easily one of the most shit-flinging boards on 4chan. Anyone who spent more than five seconds here would already know that.
47 hours later 72008448 Anonymous
>>71979889
N I G G E R
47 hours later 72008460 Anonymous
>>72007880
>having opt-in feature is bad
This is what Clets believe.
47 hours later 72008488 Anonymous
>>72007947
C writes directly to machine code you brainlet.
You know what CPU's use.
47 hours later 72008499 Anonymous
>>71979834
>copying a string is to expensive
aint watching the C++ the compiler decides if he prefers a copy or a reference so basically its always better to pass a value because then the compiler has at least a chance to optimize the code.
Languages are made for them to be readable if you want optimization go suck a compilers dick.
47 hours later 72008508 Anonymous
>>72008460
>He thinks hes Frankenstein language will ever be taken seriously
This is wat discord trannies believe.
48 hours later 72008742 Anonymous
>>72008460
>crate driven programming is ok
>JUST USE A CRATE BRAH!
rust is such a pile of shit they had to make this many crates to cover up its flaws.
>>72007947
Leftists love to overgeneralize an argument so that it becomes unrecognisable
48 hours later 72008753 Anonymous
>>72006480
>yes we can
>Obama slogan
>On a technical page about Rust
Rust really needs to die
48 hours later 72008778 Anonymous (1530969595134.jpg 1029x1000 281kB)
>>71979911
I see you are much more angry than I am.
48 hours later 72009027 Anonymous
>>71979889
Good grief, /g/ would never insult non-cis POC.
The sky would fall on our head!
48 hours later 72009047 Anonymous (86C87E1F-2EB6-4A0D-BD4F-EF8DE7732117.jpg 1024x576 54kB)
>>72008488
>>72008742
>C is machine code
sweet summer child
48 hours later 72009067 Anonymous
>>72009047
>Wut is compiling
48 hours later 72009225 Anonymous
>>72006571
Yes, it does
48 hours later 72009325 Anonymous
>>71979834
gay
48 hours later 72009347 Anonymous
I use rust at work
48 hours later 72009371 Anonymous
>>72009347
Googles dilation station doesn't count.
49 hours later 72009478 Anonymous (DE0898F3-32EB-484E-9FDC-93BCD23ED443.jpg 457x652 36kB)
>>72009067
All languages are reduced to machine code. C isn’t special, it’s just a dying boomer lang.
49 hours later 72009519 Anonymous
once rust takes over and there's no more memory corruption bugs jailbreaking will be impossible and all devices will be 'content' pipelines that the user doesn't even really own.
49 hours later 72009524 Anonymous
>>72009371
Crypto research. A lot of crypto PhD fags are using rust now and I need to support their shit at work.
49 hours later 72009548 Anonymous
>>72009524
Post something my negro.
49 hours later 72009771 Anonymous
>>72009478
>C compiles it directly
>Rust has include a gazzilion nigger libs
49 hours later 72009837 Anonymous
>>72009478
>dying boomer lang
>Whole of the embedded/hardware use it as a industry standard so do languages like JVM's langs and C# to interface
>Meanwhile Rust
>Crickets.wav
50 hours later 72010221 Anonymous
>>71986332
Borrow checking doesn't count.
51 hours later 72011073 Anonymous
>>72009771
>C compiles it directly
No, then the binaries wouldn't run well. It's compiled like any other language, delusional boomer.
52 hours later 72012131 Anonymous
>>72008742
>>72008508
Just don't use crates if you don't want to.
Stdlib still gives you more tools than C's library.
>>72010221
Kek
53 hours later 72012513 Anonymous
>>71998059
Denying an animal character like that is something only an American would do (I mean refering to individual animals with "it" in general, I don't care about the SJW madness)
54 hours later 72013573 Anonymous
>>72006135
>Switching a compiler might break it. An update might break it.
God forbid a compiler changes the way it deals with out of bounds writes.
Brainlet.
54 hours later 72013691 Anonymous
>>72009837
>Whole of pajeet-ware
What an accomplishment, the master lang of $9 street shitters
54 hours later 72013839 Anonymous
>>72006375
For anything new, there's no reason to use C/C++ over Rust
55 hours later 72013962 Anonymous
>>72009524
>>72009524
How do I break into the crypto-rust scene?
55 hours later 72013976 Anonymous
>>72013962
I'd also like to know this. let's make something anon
55 hours later 72013992 Anonymous
>>72009524
Can confirm, C is a ubiquitous pain in the ass for crypto. Many of the bitwise operations you would like to use for implementation cryptography algorithms have implementation defined or undefined behavior.
55 hours later 72014210 Anonymous
It feels like people shill it so hard to try to justify their use. Fact is there is no job market for this language its a hobby language and I dont see it becoming mainstream anytime soon.
55 hours later 72014403 Anonymous (1544500384018 (1).jpg 399x351 68kB)
I'm waiting for a non-mozilla SJW compiler to come out.
57 hours later 72015315 Anonymous
>>72014403
there is a alternative in c or cpp i think. doesnt work completely though
58 hours later 72015485 Anonymous (1486446034754.jpg 612x408 49kB)
>Rust doesn't have a debugger of its own and just leeches of gdb
60 hours later 72016781 Anonymous
>>72015485
Because it's just a thin syntactic sugar over LLVM in the first place
60 hours later 72016811 Anonymous
No Rust jobs, meanwhile everyone is constantly looking for C++ especially in embedded world.
62 hours later 72017640 Anonymous
>>72014210
>>72016811
fucking retards
62 hours later 72017851 Anonymous
>>72016811
Rust jobs are in servers. It will never catch on in embedded outside of maybe hobbyists.
63 hours later 72018027 Anonymous
>>72017640
nice argument faggot nigger
there are practically no rust jobs while there are millions of C++ positions open every day, your denial doesn't change this widely acknowledged fact
63 hours later 72018270 Anonymous (1563894980434.png 694x793 15kB)
>>71990471
63 hours later 72018299 Anonymous (rust lmao.png 600x600 255kB)
>>72018270
Seethe, Cnile.
63 hours later 72018336 Anonymous (1557220837120.png 738x669 190kB)
>>72018299
dilate
64 hours later 72018486 Anonymous
>>72007880
No one is forcing you to upgrade a package. Such a scenario would be trivial to fix with a stack trace literally pointing to the library.
64 hours later 72018497 Anonymous
>>72008742
No one is forcing you to use crates. You can compile without std
64 hours later 72018523 Anonymous
>>72015485
The only real criticism in this thread. CLion plugin doesnt count.
64 hours later 72018551 Anonymous
>>72015485
>>72018523
Why is gdb bad for Rust?
I've only used it once and it just werks.
65 hours later 72019105 Anonymous
>>72009519
this nigga gets it.
65 hours later 72019214 Anonymous
>>71982101
>>71982551
Prove your claims.
66 hours later 72019818 Anonymous
>>72019214
You can create memory safe double linked list, but you can't express one in Rust.
It's not much of a problem since lifetimes and borrows are really useful tool, but it does force you to use unsafe if you don't want to lose some performance in these few rare cases.
67 hours later 72019943 Anonymous
>>71998083
>m-muh ABI
>Never been necessary.
LOL
67 hours later 72019970 Anonymous
>>72019943
In practice you only need stable ABI when dealing with FFI. Rust has stable FFI ABI.
67 hours later 72020071 Anonymous
>>72019818
That's not a proof of either claim about Rust's memory safety you imbecile.
67 hours later 72020125 Anonymous
>>72020071
It proves that rust is limited to only subset of safe programs.
67 hours later 72020158 Anonymous (1558848090328.jpg 600x600 64kB)
>>72020125
Wrong. All it "proves" is that some memory safe programs can't be written in Rust.
67 hours later 72020198 Anonymous
>>72020158
So you want to proof that every safe rust program is memory safe?
Well, I don't have one, but it sure work be fun to write.
67 hours later 72020208 Anonymous
>>71979889
go back to r*ddit faggot
67 hours later 72020222 Anonymous
>>72020198
I want proof of your claim that Rust restricts the subset of valid programs to memory safe programs.
Afaik, there's no proof that Rust compiler implements the borrow checker (proved to not allow data races, as per RustBelt) correctly.
Your claims are void.
68 hours later 72020467 Anonymous
>>72006135
UB means it's up to the compiler if the UB occurs at all at runtime.
Take integer overflow for example (which, is UB) adding two integers may or may not be UB depending on whether or not the values are too large for the operation.
However, just because adding two integers can be UB doesn't mean UB will ever show up in the situation/use case, hence you don't have to worry. Thus the importance of comprehensive testing becomes apparent.
68 hours later 72020489 Anonymous
>>72020222
My only claim was that about linked lists.
I'm neither of these two anons you wanted proofs from.
68 hours later 72020504 Anonymous
>>71979834
Because C++ or C is better
68 hours later 72020552 Anonymous
>>71979834
Can you make fucking general instead of making EVERY SINGLE DAY SAME SHITTY THREAD WITH SAME QUESTION?
68 hours later 72020568 Anonymous
>>72020489
Got your (You), good job.
68 hours later 72020607 Anonymous
>>72020552
This.
Let's have general where we actually discuss rust news and language instead of these bait threads.
68 hours later 72020690 Anonymous
>>72020071
>>72020125
>circular referencing
>memory safety
the absolute state of this retarded board
68 hours later 72020719 Anonymous (1563154267971.png 352x264 68kB)
>>71979889
ayyyyy it's actually a real rust tranny
68 hours later 72020844 Anonymous
>>72019818
>You can create memory safe double linked list, but you can't express one in Rust.
What are you on about? There's a doubly-linked list in the standard library:
https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/colle ctions/struct.LinkedList.html
71 hours later 72022447 Anonymous
>>72020552
Where my /rust/ bros at?
71 hours later 72022507 Anonymous
>>72020844
It is implemented using unsafe. I meant safe rust as it is the one that guarantees safety.
71 hours later 72022675 Anonymous
>>72018551
It's not a bad thing, it's that for such hyped language it lacks dedicated tools beside a compiler
71 hours later 72022727 Anonymous
>>72020607
>implying salty Cniles won't seethe just as much
>>72022507
>It is implemented using unsafe.
Doesn't make it unsafe if it's checked, proven, tested and peer-reviewed, which is easier to do in Rust than in C. I thought Cniles understood basic programming by now.
71 hours later 72022971 Anonymous
>>72022675
>It's not a bad thing, it's that for such hyped language it lacks dedicated tools beside a compiler
Maybe, but at the same time it's lots of work and not much value added. If someone can use gdb, they will be able to debug rust code using it, even if it doesn't have nice rust specific features.
>>72022727
It's funny how you tell me about salty cniles and then call me cniles in the same post kek.
>Doesn't make it unsafe if it's checked, proven, tested and peer-reviewed, which is easier to do in Rust than in C. I thought Cniles understood basic programming by now.
I don't claim it is unsafe. You missed my point. If we discuss safety aspects of Rust we talk about safe subset of it as it is the one that is supposed to guarantee safety. We discuss what is and what isn't possible within these restrictions. In unsafe rust you can express pretty much everything C can but the safety is solely developer's responsibility.
72 hours later 72023014 Anonymous
>>72022447
Just came back from my C wagie job. Gonna work again on my gemu:
https://github.com/nodef0/gorillas- rs
72 hours later 72023334 Anonymous
>>72022727
>easier to do in Rust than in C
As demonstrated by 0 verified safe loc of Rust as opposed to couple millions of loc of safe (down to binary) C.
72 hours later 72023362 Anonymous
>>72023334
Rust has built-in unit tests. Done.
72 hours later 72023401 Anonymous
>>72023362
>unit tests
>verification
That's a big yikes. Meanwhile, in Cnile land
>VST
>CompCert
>Frama-C
Dilate until you can provide actual safety, instead of placebo.
72 hours later 72023475 Anonymous
So what's up with these Rust threads? It's not like it's a particularly bad language, but the threads invariably get ruined about 3 posts in, and usually in more or less the same way.
72 hours later 72023524 Anonymous
>embedded language with a package manager and needs a command to "build project" and syntax is autistic.
Tranny language
72 hours later 72023620 Anonymous
>>72023401
>Meanwhile, in Cnile land
>>*stuff that is not part of the C language*
Try again.
72 hours later 72023676 Anonymous
>>72023475
>falsegflagger makes bait rust thread
>irritated Cfags respond criticizing rust on valid and invalid basis
>brainlet fanboys respond insulting C
>/pol/ joins the party and calls everyone trannies because Mozilla
>rinse and repeat every single day
72 hours later 72023704 Anonymous
>>72023676
What invalid basis is there for criticizing C aside from tools that are 100% external to the language and don't excuse the language's retardation in any way?
72 hours later 72023719 Anonymous
>>72023620
>rustranny gets btfo on safety
>b-b-but you can't use tools in C because rust isn't used for anything relevant and doesn't have any tools
Write a fizzbuzz with a proof of correctnes of its rust implementation.
73 hours later 72024160 Anonymous (cnile in fetal position.png 883x301 10kB)
>>72023719
OK what now?
73 hours later 72024201 Anonymous (1523224565157.gif 480x407 1292kB)
>>72024160
>proof
>specification
the absolute state of rustrannies
73 hours later 72024296 Anonymous
>>72024201
I wrote a fizzbuzz with a proof of correctness of its Rust implementation. Where are you desperately trying to shift the goalposts to?
73 hours later 72024318 Anonymous
>>72024296
>with a proof of correctness of its Rust implementation
No. You wrote a fizzbuzz annotated with an informal specification. Try again when you know the difference between proof and spec (talk about shifting the goalpost...).
73 hours later 72024380 Anonymous
>>72024318
Of course I didn't write the trivial parts. I'm not gonna go through the trouble of writing all the Hoare sequents just so your damage-controlling Cnile ass can shift the goalposts even further. You have a proof of loop termination and two proof obligations, one being proven and one being trivial. It's a proof, period.
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