4chan archive /g/ (index)
2012-10-02 12:51 28002630 Anonymous (venus_vagina.jpg 640x525 83kB)
The Venus Project is a cult that wants to get rid of money and have a resource economy instead. This is an email exchange I had with them. The Venus Project Tours Inbox x blah(atski)blah.com Aug 21 to tvp I am interested. Can I give you $200 worth of resources you might need? The journey begins with one step, after all. tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com Aug 22 to me I'm sorry we don't understand what you are asking blah(atski)blah.com Aug 22 to tvp You charge $200 per tour. I would like to give you whatever resources you need (food, plywood, USB drives, batteries, etc.) instead of money. Send me a shopping list for $200 and I'll buy the stuff you requested, bring it to you in return for the tour and the DVDs and pamphlets. tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com Aug 23 to me We don't really do it that way, would be more troublesome. Let us know what is feasible if the usual 200 fee is not. best, Joel blah(atski)blah.com Aug 23 to tvp Don't you think we should start building a resource-based economy right now? You're obviously planning your resource needs, so I'm willing to help you with that. Think globally, act locally and all that? tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com Aug 23 to me If you want to attend a tour session with Jacque please let us know what you can afford, we do not do it that way. We also need to have the following information in advance for us to schedule you: >info dump here

0 min later 28002636 Anonymous
So they're hypocrites, just like all the other Zeitgeist fags.

1 min later 28002647 Anonymous
NEWSFLASH: A CULT THAT WANTS YOUR MONEY. How shocking.

2 min later 28002656 Anonymous
The only reason this would never work is because it's socialist as hell. A free market version would work. Also, fuck off with your shit back to /pol/. I left for a reason.

2 min later 28002657 Anonymous
don't you get it? money is evil and they want to help you by taking the evil from you and neutralizing it. ungrateful op is ungrateful.

3 min later 28002661 Anonymous (1346381598867.jpg 250x250 32kB)
Am I the only one that thinks the pic looks like a green prison?

4 min later 28002674 Anonymous
>>28002656 It's technology-related, you silly /g/oose. >A resource-based economy would make it possible to use technology to overcome scarce resources by applying renewable sources of energy, computerizing and automating manufacturing and inventory, designing safe energy-efficient cities and advanced transportation systems, providing universal health care and more relevant education, and most of all by generating a new incentive system based on human and environmental concern. So they want everything to be managed by a giant mainframe. Yup, don't see how that could go wrong...

5 min later 28002680 Anonymous
>>28002661 Yes, Nippletoad, you are correct.

5 min later 28002681 Anonymous
>>28002661 There's no need to leave the project. Why would you want to?

5 min later 28002684 Anonymous (Mainframe-after-earthquake.png 500x282 180kB)
>>28002674

6 min later 28002689 Anonymous
Do they wan't to make an islotaed city to show their system works? How big must such a city be for it to have all the resources it needs? Or are they just waiting for the singularity?

7 min later 28002696 Anonymous
>>28002636 I thought that until I heard the Joe Rogan with the zeitgeist dude

7 min later 28002697 Anonymous
Seriously, it's funny. Their entire website talks about the evil of money and how shitty it is and when you offer to give them resources instead, they tell you "cash or check only."

7 min later 28002701 Anonymous
>>28002681 Blackjack and hookers. I bet you won't have hookers in there.

8 min later 28002703 Anonymous
>>28002696 Also, I think the venus project has no longer any connection with the zeitgeist movement. I guess they were too crazy even for them.

8 min later 28002706 Anonymous
>>28002701 In fact, screw the project.

9 min later 28002711 Anonymous
>wasting your time with crap you don't like

9 min later 28002713 Anonymous
>>28002689 They're going to build it in Guiana.

9 min later 28002715 Anonymous
>>28002689 Yes, they have a compound in a Florida swamp and they're providing tours for only $200. Cash or check only. No resource-based economy here!

9 min later 28002720 Anonymous
>>28002713 >DRINK THE KOOLAID! DRINK IT!

10 min later 28002727 Anonymous
>>28002711 I initially thought it was a cool idea, but was disappointed when they didn't want to eat their own dogfood, to use a software development aphorism.

12 min later 28002745 Anonymous (Jim Jones day of massacre.jpg 531x411 40kB)
>>28002713 I like it!

14 min later 28002762 Anonymous
that shit looks like something out of scientology, im already seeing tom cruise talking to the masses like david koresh

14 min later 28002763 Ambien
>Resource economy >Your money suddenly vanishes forever if you are robbed, or a bank is robbed. >People can literally mine money and own 80% of the words buying power, moreso than they already do Fucking retarded.

14 min later 28002766 Anonymous
>>28002727 why would they? they don't live in a resource-based economy, so they're forced to use money like everyone else!

16 min later 28002779 Anonymous
>>28002762 It's a lot like scientology for architects. Good catch, anon! Except Jacques Fresco isn't as charismatic as L. Ron Hubbard was.

17 min later 28002792 Anonymous
>>28002763 And everything is centrally planned by the glorious mainframe. Yes, all glory to the command-line economy!

18 min later 28002804 Anonymous (14810665.jpg 500x500 290kB)
Or and you can buy his book as well! Fuck this. They are more dishonest than Scientology.

19 min later 28002812 Anonymous
>>28002766 If it doesn't even work in a small scale, it won't work on a large scale.

20 min later 28002825 Anonymous
>>28002792 I love the mainframe concept. If they really knew what they were doing they could figure out how to run the country without a *super mainframe that runs everything*. If they don't know how to manage things themselves they certainly won't be able to tell a computer how to do it. I love how they feel like they can magic away all the shit they haven't figured out yet by saying "a magically fast computer will work it out for us!!".

20 min later 28002828 Anonymous
Video relevant http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VkoAGlr3KUg

21 min later 28002840 Anonymous
>>28002825 yup. and their little swamp city looks like a poor man's legion of doom HQ.

21 min later 28002841 Anonymous
>>28002766 not everyone in the world uses money. there's plenty of tribes around that don't use it.

21 min later 28002845 Anonymous
>>28002630 >have an absolute idea >don't structure the beginning from that idea Even in less out there ideas, if you're not true to it from the start, no one will believe in it. These people are clearly frauds.

23 min later 28002858 Anonymous
>>28002841 >there's plenty of tribes around that don't use it. Who use some form of battering system, with one resource being more important and having a greater worth than others. Even aboriginal Australians, the most simplest of all people, traded in sea shells.

23 min later 28002861 Anonymous
>>28002804 You have to buy it? It isn't available for free? If you want people to listen to you, wouldn't it be best to give that shit out for free. "Pay me so I can tell you why money is bad."

23 min later 28002863 Anonymous
>>28002841 and they are more honest than the venus project, because they live what they preach.

24 min later 28002868 Anonymous
>>28002858 a resource based economy is still a bartering system of sorts from what I understand.

24 min later 28002872 Anonymous
>>28002861 Yup. It's hilarious. And it's worse than other cults like Scientology, because they do not oppose money as a concept. These guys do, which makes it more ironic.

25 min later 28002879 Anonymous
>>28002868 you're retarded.

26 min later 28002891 Anonymous
>>28002825 I remember an Asimov story along the same lines. They built comuters who built better computers until it came to a point that it was too complicated for humans. Then they couldn't figure out why shit was going wrong with the world economy controlled by such computers.

26 min later 28002892 Anonymous
>>28002868 And you will still create an unequal worth towards some resources, as in whatever is in demand rather than supply. Currency civilises this process, that is you'll always have one resource which can be used to compare its worth against others. This isn't even difficult stuff I'm posting about here, it's a high school level economy course.

29 min later 28002914 Anonymous
>>28002891 And then the iPads enslaved mankind.

29 min later 28002919 Anonymous (jim-jones.jpg 256x350 11kB)
"Sry guys, cash only."

30 min later 28002923 Anonymous
>>28002891 >it came to a point that it was too complicated for humans To actually build the computers? We're already at that point, there is simply no way you could build a complicated computing architecture with your hands and a soldering iron. To design the computers? I don't believe AI will ever be capable of that, unfortunately AI are only ever programmed to do what they're programmed. They're obedient to the point of not always useful, any beginner programmer can attest to that: they tell the computer to do one thing and it does EXACTLY what they tell it to do, except it wasn't what they had in mind. I do agree computing, robotics and mechatronics will replace our need for humans performing menial tasks. One day, we won't need a large lowerclass any more, this is already a reality in some agricultural fields.

30 min later 28002933 Anonymous
Do they support the FSF?

31 min later 28002940 sage sage
>>28002630 You're a fucking idiot.

32 min later 28002953 Anonymous
>>28002940 Explain yourself.

32 min later 28002957 Anonymous (Screen Shot 2012-10-02 at 07.23.07 .png 3078x1100 2142kB)
>And we will attack Stalingrad from the side...

32 min later 28002961 Anonymous
>>28002892 i'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of, or why you keep saging.

33 min later 28002970 Anonymous (Screen Shot 2012-10-02 at 07.22.36 .png 1516x898 1004kB)
>meanwhile, at the LEGION OF DOOM...

34 min later 28002981 Anonymous
>>28002940 Why? If it doesn't work in small-scale, it won't work in large-scale.

34 min later 28002982 Anonymous
>>28002961 I'm trying to convince that there is no such thing as a resource based economy, and if you tried to artificially create one, it would tend towards a currency based economy anyway. It's a futile effort. >sage Because this isn't technology related. Take it to /pol/

35 min later 28002989 Anonymous
>>28002957 I love how wasteful the city design is in regards to land use, and how stupidly rigid it is. What happens when the population exceeds the city size asshole? What happens when it's under populated too and everyone has to help maintain these empty buildings until there's people to occupy them?

36 min later 28003001 Anonymous
>>28002982 It is technology-related. It's about the mistaken belief that technology can be used to have an effective command economy by simply having the giant mainframe of love control everything.

37 min later 28003011 Anonymous
>>28002989 >What happens when the population exceeds the city size asshole? It doesn't. Such a society won't have a population growth.

37 min later 28003014 Anonymous
>>28002989 Magic technology! Er, robots and computers will do everything for us in the future. And rocket cars and space hookers! Buy my book and DVDs where I explain why money is bad!

37 min later 28003018 Anonymous
>>28002957 >>28002970 Who is going to maintain all those plants? Will the supercomputer assign everyone to groundskeeping?

38 min later 28003021 Anonymous
>>28003011 They'll do what the Mayans did and "sacrifice" the surplus population to the Gods when the crop fails.

38 min later 28003032 Anonymous
>>28003018 nanotech! magic fairy dust! >TECHNOLOGY WILL SAVE US ALL! >PRAISE TECHNOLOGY!

39 min later 28003036 Anonymous
>>28002923 I think that they created a positronic brain (Asimov's A.I) to design a better brain, which was used to design an even better brain and so on. To the point that it became impossible or feasible for humans to directly control the A.I. Became too complicated for them mathematically, or so I remember. So you were right in a way. Couldn't an A.I ever develop the capacity for imagination like the human brain?

39 min later 28003039 Anonymous
>>28002982 >I'm trying to convince that there is no such thing as a resource based economy I would not have guessed that. I barely know what a resource based economy is meant to be and gather the concept is incredibly stupid. >Because this isn't technology related. yet you're actively contributing to this thread and encourageing the discussion. If you don't like these threads on /g/, post "sage" and sage only or report and leave well enough alone.

41 min later 28003064 Anonymous
>>28003032 It will save us, just not today, nor tomorrow or even the day after. Even then, at best technology will let everyone live as if they're actually middle-class (not, deluded prole middle-class), it still won't be a utopia and we'll still have the same problems middle-class people have today.

41 min later 28003074 Anonymous
>>28003021 Or population control drugs in the water supply.

42 min later 28003083 Anonymous
>>28003064 And I doubt money will go away.

44 min later 28003109 Anonymous
>>28003036 >Couldn't an A.I ever develop the capacity for imagination like the human brain? No. The human brain is a lot more complex than anything created from silicon and germanium. The only artificial machine capable of what you want is a genetically modified clone, anything else would be simply too inefficient and too complex to design (why reinvent the wheel when the proverbial maker already did?). In short, if we wanted such a machine, we would move onto biological technology, which would replace electronic based technology. Again, this is an advancement that will occur in many thousands of years.

45 min later 28003127 Anonymous
>>28003074 >Or population control drugs in the water supply. We won't ever need that. Take a look at the middle-class in western society, exactly what is their fertility rate against the lower class? Strangely, humans reproduce less when there's an abundance of resources.

46 min later 28003135 Anonymous
If I was to support an utopical nutwhack, I'd support Paolo Soleri. The man invented the concept of Arcology and actually built himself a little model village out of recycled materials.

47 min later 28003154 Anonymous (1345531099212.png 414x410 46kB)
>>28003064 >>28003083 >Resources >Coined money >Silver / Gold They all represent the same thing tbh, just with varying comfort of exchange, storage and legitimacy. They are still a representation of having something of value. I don't think we need to build green park-like prison cities to make this into a realization. Besides, where would one store all ones resources in one of these small eco houses.

49 min later 28003181 Anonymous
I'm too lazy to read the whole threads full of babbies whining but seriously, I see nothing wrong with it. The Venus Project is supposed to work as long as the whole Earth contributes a globalized control of resources, if you just give them a potato shit won't help. They are forced to use money to actuate their plans until the whole world is ready to chip in and start balancing resources. It's all or nothing, that's the whole point of the project (and why I think it'd be unfeasible), there's nothing hypocritical in this

49 min later 28003184 Anonymous
>>28003109 >biological technology...an advancement that will occur in many thousands of years. Sounds like a logical step, who knows when it will occur, at least not in our lifetimes. This conversation has sparked my interest, I'm gonna go look up this shit somewhere, go through Godel, Bach & Escher again.

50 min later 28003192 Steve Ballmer
>>28003154 Don't worry, I got this great idea: >Make a huge building with security and shit. >Store resources there. >Issue ownership notices of your resources in that vault. So you can have a slip of paper that says: “This note can be exchanged for 10g gold at Brilliant Arcology's Nomenclature Korporation”. Then we would all have resources, but not have to barter all the time.

53 min later 28003238 Anonymous
>>28003181 Why do they sell their books then? If it supposed to be a global movement, shouldn't they release the information for free? Or do they already do that?

55 min later 28003255 Anonymous
>>28003238 They should be handing out digital copies for free, yes (I don't know if they do). However it's not unreasonable to think that a physical book copy would cost some money. It's both to support them and to coup in the printing costs

57 min later 28003274 Anonymous (1349075615722.jpg 168x211 4kB)
>>28003192

59 min later 28003297 Anonymous
>>28003192 Yes, pieces of paper that represent a value guaranteed by an organization... That has never been tried before!

1 hours later 28003311 Anonymous
>>28003181 If it doesn't work in small-scale, it won't work in large-scale. Engineering 101

1 hours later 28003324 Anonymous
God you people are dumb, it's not like you'd have a warehouse of resources somewhere that represents your assets. You don't HAVE assets, if you want something you just ask for it and it is given to you. The reason they aren't practicing what they preach is that it's not technologically possible at the moment.

1 hours later 28003333 Anonymous
>>28003274 >>28003297 >his point >------------ >your head

1 hours later 28003337 Anonymous
>>28003324 >it's not technologically possible to accept resources in place of currency at this time

1 hours later 28003341 Anonymous
>>28003324 >You don't HAVE assets I'm seeing a problem with this idea... How to convince people not to have stuff?

1 hours later 28003346 Anonymous
The amount of butthurt here is amazing. They are EDUCATING people, not building cities rigtht now because we are waiting for this society to collapse to start anew. Please at least watch the movie, Zeitgeist: Moving Forward. Anyone open minded enough should find it a highly plausible solution for ALL worldwide and personal problems. But until YOU dont sort YOUR BRAIN out, we have nothing to discuss. Work on yourself first, on the society next. A healthy human that has dealt with all his issues first and goes on the internet to discuss, not attack his fellow beings, finds this concept very plausible.

1 hours later 28003352 Anonymous
>>28003311 but it does work in small scale, there are lots of self-sustained communities that don't need to use money INSIDE them to survive. The whole point is that it can't work NOW with the outside because it can't rely on not having money to go on, since money is required in today's society. Don't you get it?

1 hours later 28003364 Anonymous
>>28003346 >>28003324 >trust us, paradise is coming where you won't need any money. >meanwhile, give us your money!

1 hours later 28003368 Anonymous
>>28003352 >self-sustained communities that don't need to use money INSIDE them to survive. Name one.

1 hours later 28003371 Anonymous (1345100829007.png 250x250 48kB)
>>28003333 >our ironic humor >---------- >you

1 hours later 28003375 Anonymous
>>28003352 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food

1 hours later 28003384 Anonymous
>>28003364 >donates to FSF because he believes in the just cause of free software >shits on another just cause because lol who needs money xD yes, I am assuming things

1 hours later 28003394 Anonymous
>>28003368 The Jonestown facility.

1 hours later 28003408 Anonymous
>>28003368 You never heard of a self sustained agricultural community? >>28003375 They still need money to survive in this economy. You can't propose a new economical system and then start following it yourself if the rest of the world shits all over you and ignores you. This will work only if everyone plays by its rules

1 hours later 28003421 Anonymous
>>28003341 It works like this: Robots mine/produce resources Computer allocates them Robots build whatever we need Humans are provided evening they need to live free If you want something, you ask for it and it is given to you Humans do whatever they want (supposedly dedicating themselves to higher pursuits, but more likely hedonism)

1 hours later 28003433 Anonymous
>>28003346 What the fuck am I reading. >because we are waiting for this society to collapse to start anew >we're waiting for everything to break so our system becomes viable, not that our system is intrinsically viable or rationally preferable at any time >Anyone open minded enough should find it a highly plausible solution for ALL worldwide and personal problems. >solution for problems >can't fix the problems, society will collapse >Work on yourself first, on the society next. Indeed!

1 hours later 28003434 Anonymous
>>28003364 they are using money to end money once and for all.

1 hours later 28003443 Anonymous
>>28003408 Nobody plays by anyone's rules, silly.

1 hours later 28003444 Anonymous
>>28003421 >Humans do whatever they want What if I just want to watch the world burn? But seriously, how would they deal with crime? Robot Judge Dredd?

1 hours later 28003453 Anonymous
>>28003443 >Nobody plays by anyone's rules, silly. >hurr what are economical plans

1 hours later 28003459 Anonymous
>>28003384 FSF develops software and actively encourages software development. The Venus Project is an architect commie wannabe sitting in a Florida swamp and dreaming of the day when everything is controlled by a computer and he's root.

1 hours later 28003467 Anonymous
>>28003444 There's no crime where everyone has everything he needs

1 hours later 28003475 Anonymous
>>28003434 Of course they are, dear. Of course they are. I offered them $200 in resources and they flat out refused. That is suspicious in my book. Not even, "oh, well. buy $200 of booze then," but cash or check only.

1 hours later 28003481 Anonymous
>>28003467 I get under-aged children to fuck? Man, bring on the resource economy!

1 hours later 28003486 Anonymous
>>28003467 That has to be the stupidest idea ever.

1 hours later 28003494 Anonymous
>>28003421 And when the resources run out?

1 hours later 28003496 Anonymous
>expound the virtues of a resource based economy >vehemently refuse a resource based exchange smells like fraud to me

1 hours later 28003497 Anonymous
>>28003475 You don't understand, you didn't offer any resource, you just offered an alternative barter system. That's not what they are proposing, they didn't have to agree with you in the first place

1 hours later 28003499 Anonymous
>>28003467 I want to watch the world burn.

1 hours later 28003500 Anonymous
>>28002630 >get rid of money and have a resource economy instead Great, so instead of "We're taking all your money for the gov'ment", it's "YOU MUST MINE MORE MINERALS"

1 hours later 28003502 Anonymous
What's so goddamn wrong about money? It's merely a symbollic and incredibly handy way of attributing a concrete value to something. There's nothing wrong about it. It's impossible to conceive a worldwide society without money, unless you were whilling to create world of many little economically-closed city states, which would eventually slow general mankind progress a lot. What is wrong in the current state of affairs, is the structure of economy, and the current unregulated laissez-faire free market model, not money itself. Money it's just a freakin' tool, not the sum of all evils. It's our intentions based on it that vary.

1 hours later 28003504 Anonymous
>>28003467 Crimes are not all motivated by economy.

1 hours later 28003505 Anonymous
>>28003467 The funny thing is that that is something that liberals and commies actually believe.

1 hours later 28003522 Anonymous
>>28003444 He believes crime springs from a lack of resources and education. I disagree, but I think crime like theft WOULD be eliminated for the most part when you can just ask for whatever you want. They'll never get rid of murders, so I think there would definitely need to be a police force.

1 hours later 28003524 Anonymous
>>28003497 he offered them anything they wanted that wasn't currency

1 hours later 28003531 Anonymous
>>28003467 >There's no crime where everyone has everything he wants FTFY I don't need to get laid, I want to get laid, so I follow school girls home from school. Get the picture? Now, has any good ever been done by giving everyone exactly what they want?

1 hours later 28003534 Anonymous
>>28003500 >Oh hey there, so I wanted to buy a bag of rice >YOU REQUIRE MORE VESPENE GAS

1 hours later 28003536 Anonymous
>>28003497 The Venus Project states that they value resources and resource planning higher than money. If they cannot plan with their resources, then they are worthless. For instance, if they had returned to me with "Oh, I looked in our database/Excel/textfile/whatever that we need more pylons, so bring us more pylons" then that would have been proof they are eating their own dogfood. But they don't. >Cash or check only.

1 hours later 28003546 Anonymous
I want a 150-story palace

1 hours later 28003547 Anonymous
>2012 >Confusing The Venus Project (technological development) with The Zeitgeist Movement (incompetent cult that wants to destroy money). Full retard.

1 hours later 28003550 Anonymous
>>28003524 which has nothing to do with what they are advocating. He has as much right to complain about them refusing as any other person trying to buy a computer from Dell while offering them spare parts they may need instead of money and then getting refused.

1 hours later 28003551 Anonymous
>>28003534 >BUILD MORE PYLONS!

1 hours later 28003559 Anonymous
>>28003547 The Venus Project wants to destroy money as well. Check their website.

1 hours later 28003570 Anonymous
>>28003536 >The Venus Project states that they value resources and resource planning higher than money. >If they cannot plan with their resources, then they are worthless. But that's wrong, they don't value barter over money, they value a society where there's no need for any of that. It has nothing to do with you trying to barter your way into their society as they are AGAINST barter as much as they are against money

1 hours later 28003615 Anonymous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVOPkGAtt48 >THE POWER OF VOLCANOS

1 hours later 28003626 Anonymous
>>28003550 You haven't gotten the point. They want resources. He offered resources (that is: anything they need for building their magic society). They didn't want resources anymore. Dell wants money because it's more expensive trying to handle random spare parts. If you ask Dell to handle the spare parts *and* pay them to have a technician actually look at those specific things (at ~100$/hour + travel, shipping, etc), I think you might be able to convince them to do so.

1 hours later 28003641 Anonymous
>>28003626 no, you don't get it. They don't want resources. They want money and help advocating what they're trying to achieve. The resource-based society is for later on, when the whole world is ready to sustain itself in a free world without the need of economy and money.

1 hours later 28003670 Anonymous
The "no money" thing is a VERY small part of the whole Venus Project. It's one part I happen to disagree with, and even if feasible, would likely be the last part of the project to be implemented. In my opinion, the problem isn't money itself. The problem is how it is distributed. Obviously there needs to be some inequality in wealth. A heart surgeon should be paid more than a store clerk. But at some point the disparity becomes too large. What does Rush Limbaugh do? He talks on the radio. That's not a particularly difficult job. Sure, it requires good speaking skills and a strong ability to capture the audience, but it wouldn't be TOO hard to find someone to replace him. Not to mention the world doesn't even NEED that particular job. Yet Rush Limbaugh makes $28 million per year. If we assume a salary of $100,000 for an engineer, Rush makes 280x more. Did Rush do 280x the work? I really don't think he did. So did he actually earn that wealth? In my opinion he did not. Wealth should measure contribution to society. If a company does well, shouldn't the profits be distributed to the workers (wealth creators) rather than most of it going to some top guy? If the CEO gives himself a salary 100x greater than that of everyone else... isn't he stealing? Isn't THAT redistribution of wealth?

1 hours later 28003676 Anonymous
http://thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project/resource-based-economy Jesus Christ how horrifying.

1 hours later 28003686 Anonymous
>>28003615 this is the fuckingbasshole who tells me i cant have powerfull computer because i dont "need" it i want to rip his fucking face off fucking happiness ruining fuckwit

1 hours later 28003707 Anonymous
So, what are Stallman's view on these nutwhacks?

1 hours later 28003714 Anonymous
>>28003641 That's like a PETA chairperson wearing leather made from dogs or the Greenpeace chairperson driving a 1 mile/gallon SUV while eating a hamburger made out of whale meat.

1 hours later 28003723 Anonymous
>>28003641 So that means that they're going to fail even before they started. That's pretty reassuring, considering the large scale failure that any kind of communist government has been. The "free stuff for anyone" concept just doesn't work as the main integral part in the calculation is forgotten: People are by nature greedy. The percentage of people giving more than they're taking is (in my experience) somewhere below 5%. Another thing everyone of these guys forgets is that resources are limited. Nobody can ever get "everything he needs". That's plain impossible.

1 hours later 28003725 Anonymous
>>28003670 And who decides who contributes to society? Rush's listeners and sponsors disagree with you, so should they be ignored?

1 hours later 28003732 Anonymous
you guys must be very happy in your plutocracy >implying you could run a project (that strives for a in a resource-based economy) in a money-based economy without money >op is just a regular idiot

1 hours later 28003753 Anonymous
>>28003676 Why do we need to end money, though? Proper state regulation of the economy would be a lot more feasible and effective.

1 hours later 28003757 Anonymous
>>28003732 why the hell would you want this? do you want to be told you cant have soemthing you want because you dont "need" it?

1 hours later 28003771 Anonymous
>>28003670 >What does Rush Limbaugh do? He talks on the radio. He does something that people pay money for him to do. Money is property and people can use it how they please. In this case, advertisers pay him for carrying his ads since he attracts quite a few listeners. >If the CEO gives himself a salary 100x greater than that of everyone else... isn't he stealing? Isn't THAT redistribution of wealth? No. Workers are paid what they have accepted to be paid. If you want them to be paid more have them stop accepting stupidly low salaries. If they want to continue accepting stupidly low salaries? Their problem.

1 hours later 28003778 Anonymous
>>28003757 I don't need a lot of things, but I do want some goods and services. I can drink regular coffee, but I prefer latte. YOU DON'T NEED THAT MILK AND ESPRESSO!!! DRINK REGULAR COFFEE! ALL GLORY TO THE MAINFRAME OF LOVE!

1 hours later 28003780 Anonymous
>>28003723 >The "free stuff for anyone" concept just doesn't work as the main integral part in the calculation is forgotten: People are by nature greedy. how can they be greedy when they can have everything they want without limit? Experience dictates that even the greediest/most-needy person will stop being that if presented with an infinite amount of what he wants. Give a child a cake and he will want more, give a child an infinite amount of cakes and he will stop.

1 hours later 28003787 Anonymous
>>28003780 He'll want infinity+1.

1 hours later 28003789 Anonymous
>>28003778 then you would not want the venus project

1 hours later 28003794 Anonymous
>>28003771 NO, ONLY THE SUBROUTINE OF WORTHINESS CAN DETERMINE YOUR VALUE TO SOCIETY! ALL GLORY TO THE MAINFRAME OF LOVE!

1 hours later 28003795 Anonymous
>>28003757 >do you want to be told you cant have soemthing you want because you dont "need" it? but that's the fucking opposite of what the Venus Project advocates... Do you have any idea of what you're talking about or are you just assuming things? The Venus Projects basically advocates a society where everyone can get everything, EVERYONE can get EVERYTHING. There's no "need" or "want", just go and get it.

1 hours later 28003803 Anonymous
>>28003732 You're very, very gullible - and this is coming from someone who frequents /x/. You wouldn't believe how much money the supposed "contactees" make with their books and that is still nothing when compared to the various cults around the globe. This is bullshit along the lines of Scientology or Ashtar Command, wake the fuck up before you'll find out that money's leaking from your wallet and some fat cat is laughing at you from his Bond-inspired HQ. Thanks OP, I suspected as much, but your e-mail exchange nailed it. Take care. Also funny to find it on /g/ of all places.

1 hours later 28003804 Anonymous (Rush.png 500x420 178kB)
>>28003725 Oh man, I TOTALLY thought you were talking about something else for a second there

1 hours later 28003805 Anonymous
>>28003787 nope

1 hours later 28003808 Anonymous
>>28003789 If this is to work, according to its fans, the whole world must convert to their system.

1 hours later 28003809 Anonymous
>>28003804 that band is garbage

1 hours later 28003812 Anonymous
>>28003795 project venus may as well advocate unicorns

1 hours later 28003820 Anonymous
>>28003795 My neighbour is a dirty mudslime, I don't want him to have everything. Can I have that?

1 hours later 28003826 Anonymous
>>28003820 you won't have the concept of "dirty mudslime" in such a society. You won't have such a wish in the first place.

1 hours later 28003828 Anonymous
>>28003808 but then no one will get what they want only what they need and no one will ever be happy again >>28003820 racists wouild be killed on sight for thought crimes

1 hours later 28003834 Anonymous
>>28003803 This. David Icke lecture tickets are about $40 each. That's a lot of dosh just to hear a british sports commentator talk about lizardmen.

1 hours later 28003837 Anonymous
>>28003826 Why not?

1 hours later 28003839 Anonymous
>>28003828 >racists wouild be killed on sight for thought crimes stop spreading lies

1 hours later 28003840 Anonymous
>>28003795 Everyone can get everything? Nope, there are still finite amounts of resources, unless we go out in space to mine and that's not what The Venus Project is about. It's just silly utopianism.

1 hours later 28003845 Anonymous
>>28002661 To me it looks like the Pentagon designed by hippies.

1 hours later 28003848 Anonymous
if everyone were to have an equal share of all the money in the world, that'd only be 8,851 per person

1 hours later 28003867 Anonymous
>>28003840 But the society would be designed in such a way that you would only want manageable things in reasonable amounts, like a bag of sorghum.

1 hours later 28003869 Anonymous
>>28003837 because the first step toward such a society is to drop the concept of states and nations and nationality. We are all humans living on the same earth, there's no race and there's no prejudice, we will cooperate with each other under a unified "nation" (the earth) and administer all the earth's resources (plenty, far more than we'll ever need/want) with each other. Yes, it's very idealistic and rather utopian, which is why we're still far far away from such an idea and which is why the Venus Project can't just take off and start living in a "resource based economy" world, it's either all or nothing

1 hours later 28003875 Anonymous
>>>/pol/ >>>/new/ >>>/reddit/ Don't come back you piece of motherfucking shit, you don't even know what The Venus Project is about, never read about their objectives and what they want to achieve. >lel they want money for books and their inventions so they can have money for new technological projects - You, retarded underage kid Now kindly, fuck off.

1 hours later 28003884 Anonymous
>>28003676 >Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war tl:dr, Fresco believes thousands and thousands of work hours should go unpaid and workers should be exausted all the time, for the sake of the greater, no-money good, just because countries do that during war effort.

1 hours later 28003885 Anonymous
>>28003848 Chinese, Indians, and Africans aren't real people so that number is much higher.

1 hours later 28003889 Anonymous
>>28002957 >>28002970 I like you.

1 hours later 28003900 Anonymous
>>28003867 and this is where my problem with it comes along its mind control i turned off the Disney channel today because it was indoctrinating my niece to think sugary foods are evil

1 hours later 28003903 Anonymous
>>28003840 >Nope, there are still finite amounts of resources, unless we go out in space to mine and that's not what The Venus Project is about. who says we won't? It's a rather futuristic and technological project, going out in space is probably the most feasible objective nowadays. All in all, if we handle all the resources of the earth under the same banner, if we balance their usage and growth and if we don't waste them in petty things (like wars, for example), then yes, the Earth has plenty of resources for everyone and beyond. It's just that today you have nations and continents like Africa with literally nothing there and a surplus of stuff in other countries. If you spread out everything picking out the best places to farm said resources, then you will have no problem handling them to the whole population infinitely

1 hours later 28003918 Anonymous
>>28003869 Sounds fucking loony, might as well say you'll go colonize Mars and have your society there. Never happening on earth. It almost sounds religious.

1 hours later 28003922 Anonymous
>>28003803 His "vision:" By this time Fresco had designed his circular city to be one mile in diameter with radially connected concentric rings "resembling the spokes of a wheel."[73]At the nucleus center, in the dome, was a supercomputer that was intended to function as the centralized data management system for the automated processes throughout the city. ALL GLORY TO THE SUPERCOMPUTER!

1 hours later 28003937 Anonymous
>>28003918 yes, I agree with you. It's very far fetched and far from today's reality. But shitting on it regardlessly and calling them hypocrites is rather naive imo

1 hours later 28003943 Anonymous
>>28003922 That sounds strangely similar to Logan's Run.

1 hours later 28003947 Anonymous
>>28003922 >this actually happens >Fresco's dream comes true >/g/ decides to help him >city is built, resources collected, ready to go >war breaks out over whether to install Gentoo or Plan 9 on the supercomputer >all goes to hell

1 hours later 28003952 Anonymous
>>28003922 so basically he hates porn and privacy?

1 hours later 28003960 Anonymous
>>28003947 I chuckled

1 hours later 28003965 Anonymous
>>28003869 >it's either all or nothing I don't want socialism and you don't have the right to force it upon me.

1 hours later 28003977 Anonymous
>>28003848 what, source on this?

1 hours later 28003979 Anonymous
>>28003947 BSD, you morons!

1 hours later 28003986 Anonymous
>>28003965 and this, gentlemen, is why we still have to work on educating the world before trying to "barter" our way into fresco's mansion

1 hours later 28003991 Anonymous
>>28003803 >you´re very very gullible >i frequent /x/ what am i reading

1 hours later 28003997 Anonymous
>>28003505 >Liberal, commies Liberalism support ideas such as capitalism (either regulated or not), constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free press, free and fair elections, human rights, and the free exercise of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] Communism is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production[1][2] Back to /pol/ with you

1 hours later 28004018 Anonymous
>>28003965 Socials-Communism is an idea that only ever existed on the paper and nowhere else, because it's so perfect, you ignorant amerifat scum. It wasn't applied in any system known to our civilization, USSR never was using a Communism as their system. Educate yourself, idiot.

2 hours later 28004050 Anonymous
>>28004018 I wasn't talking about communism; I was talking about socialism. I don't mind communism, because the neat thing about it is that it's voluntary. Marx said nothing about forcing communism on people, which is why I don't hate it or fear it. Socialism, on the other hand, is often applied with an iron fist.

2 hours later 28004055 Anonymous
>>28004018 >No true Scotsman... >Failed socialism was never REAL socialism.

2 hours later 28004065 Anonymous
>>28004018 >humans attempt to make communist states >fail lel

2 hours later 28004066 Anonymous
>>28003997 So you know how to use Wikipedia. Good for you.

2 hours later 28004069 Anonymous
>>28003965 If the majority wants socialism who are you to question their will.

2 hours later 28004078 Anonymous
>>28003991 A fool calling another fool out on his stupidity, the ultimate insult. Also, just because I wrote "I frequent" doesn't mean "I take everything at face value". I've met Daniken in person and he's a really nice guy, but that doesn't mean his books aren't full of shit.

2 hours later 28004081 Anonymous
>>28004069 I am, as an individual. I'll be damned if I let my liberty fall to mob rule.

2 hours later 28004087 Anonymous
>>28004069 Then they can have their socialism and leave me out of it. You're a moron if you think a capitalist free enterprise system doesn't allow for communes; it allows for any enterprise a person or collective wishes to invent for themselves.

2 hours later 28004090 Anonymous (4343.jpg 600x578 94kB)
>>28004069 >tyranny of the majority

2 hours later 28004106 Anonymous
>>28004050 What about Democratic Socialism

2 hours later 28004128 Anonymous
>>28004106 Democracy is also an iron fist, when it takes liberties to seize personal property. Mob rule, tyranny of the majority, etc.

2 hours later 28004147 Anonymous
>>28004128 Anarchist Communism?

2 hours later 28004162 Anonymous
>>28003937 They are hypocrites. If they cannot prove their system works, either as a simulation or as a small-scale model, then it's bullshit and they're just looking for money for their legion of doom HQ.

2 hours later 28004163 Anonymous
>>28004055 I'm sorry but that is not a no true scotsman fallacy, because plenty of right wing dictators also seized power for the sake of democracy and people's freedom. By your logic, democracy as a whole would also be a lie, simply because some people took advantage of it to seize power. Mishaps related with particular individuals or corrupt governments do not account for an ideal or political philosophy as a whole.

2 hours later 28004177 Anonymous (1348753988801.gif 300x166 539kB)
>>28003615 >[by ~1989], our society will go down as the lowest development in man PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT

2 hours later 28004183 Anonymous (1-doom.jpg 400x305 23kB)
>>28003803 >Bond >Not Lex Luthor

2 hours later 28004185 Anonymous
>>28004147 Sounds good, since that's not forceful.

2 hours later 28004205 Anonymous
>>28004106 Socialism always turns to pathological altruism after a few decades.

2 hours later 28004212 Anonymous
>>28004065 >>28004055 No one ever applied a non-modified idea of communism to any country nor a state in our world. Modified social-communist ideas that were applied in USSR, China and other shit countries in the past were all MODIFIED and merely based on the original idea of communism, not even following the main idea, I'm sick of your ignorance. The Venus Project is a complete change of that, it also doesn't use a clear idea of communism, but if you actually read and understood what does Fresco mean, you wouldn't be arguing about this here. Educate yourself, you lack it.

2 hours later 28004215 Anonymous
>>28004185 I would imagine that there would be violence to over though the governments and turn the world into a property-less commune

2 hours later 28004236 Anonymous
>>28004205 Fun fact, Communist states make unemployment illegal. Not to mention if industry becomes more and more automated what are we going to do for jobs.

2 hours later 28004243 Anonymous
>>28004163 If all implementation attempts have failed so far, then it's safe to say that it's a failure so far.

2 hours later 28004252 Anonymous
>>28004236 There's no such thing as a communist state. Only tyrannical, socialist states.

2 hours later 28004257 Anonymous
>>28004212 So far, the implementations have been a failure. Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

2 hours later 28004258 Anonymous
>>28004212 I think you should go and read what No True Scotsman fallacy is.

2 hours later 28004280 Anonymous
>>28004163 >Socialism is great! >What about the USSR and Mao's China? >No TRUE SOCIALIST STATE is like that.

2 hours later 28004293 Anonymous
>>28004258 Argument still stands. Get your fallacies out of this board.

2 hours later 28004300 Anonymous
>>28004212 But people tried. You see that don't you? They created a system for the purpose of Communism, and it failed. Massively. Were the Russian revolutionaries, under the banners of Bakunin and Kropotkin, with their democratic Soviets any less GENUINE than this movement here? If you want to invest absolute power in other men to tell men how to direct their lives, are you so sure a Stalin won't come and icepick a modern Trotsky? >It's different this time, I promise! >Those ideas were all modified and exploited, it wont happen the same this time! In any event, the ideas themselves are sickening. A complete rollback of the free enterprise system which has flourished since the 18th century? Fuck no.

2 hours later 28004369 Anonymous
>>28004300 Do you know what's the real, basic idea of a communism that is known to us for centuries? Everyone should be equal, EVERYONE. It never was applied in any fucking system, so stop your bullshit. If a system that claims to be communist and doesn't even use the VERY BASIC idea, its fundamental, then how you dare to call it a communist state at all?

2 hours later 28004371 Anonymous
>>28004243 They didn't fail per se, as you still have socialist governments running strong, despite having many powerful enemies in the western world. They simply went astray, much like what happened with modern democracies, who simply turned into the bastion of corporate and big money interests. Fact is no political ideology is perfect. They just have different vulnerabilities. While western democracies are economically frail and prone to influence from lobbying and interest groups, socialist-inpired governments tend to be politically unstable and often spawn selfish dictators who get blinded by their own vision, though they're far more economically reliable than any democratic government. Fascism, on the other hand, it's like both of these vulnerabilities put together: it's not only based on ultra-centralized power, it's also extremely influenced by big money interests.

2 hours later 28004386 Anonymous
>>28004280 The way I see it, you take socialist market economy, or you take not having a job.

2 hours later 28004391 Anonymous
>>28004300 From the Project Venus website: >Considerable amounts of energy would also be saved by eliminating the duplication of competitive products such as tools, eating utensils, pots, pans and vacuum cleaners. Choice is good. But instead of hundreds of different manufacturing plants and all the paperwork and personnel required to turn out similar products, only a few of the highest quality would be needed to serve the entire population. Our only shortage is the lack of creative thought and intelligence in ourselves and our elected leaders to solve these problems. >yfw they want the Government to tell you if you can manufacture spoons or not

2 hours later 28004439 Anonymous
>>28004391 >variety of spoons means more freedom.

2 hours later 28004442 Anonymous
>>28004391 More like they want you only to manufacture the highest possible quality products and only them, to make them serve for you for a very long time and not waste resources later on maintaining it, making new ones, and making worse ones, idiot. Today almost every product is designed to be broken after short amount of time.

2 hours later 28004486 Anonymous
>>28004442 No alternative design allowed! No pokemon chopsticks! ALL GLORY TO THE SUPERCOMPUTER OF LOVE!

2 hours later 28004494 Anonymous
>>28004369 It's remarkable how you're shouting at me for being educated when you think the revolutionaries in the aftermath of the events of 1917 stood around fiddling with their penises. The early Soviet Union was one of the most progressive states ever in existence, and I would expect a Communist to be aware of that. >>28004439 Being able to make what you want and apply your mind or hands to whichever task pleases you means more freedom. >>28004442 Then stop buying those products. They only exist because people buy them. They exist because they obviously serve some portion of the population, even if they don't serve you.

2 hours later 28004504 Anonymous
>>28004280 The same could be said about every other form of government. This is why ideology differs from individuals who put in practice. You can't make an ideology responsible for the actions of an asshole. That's like me coming over to your house to beat the crap out of you and say I did it in name of jehova's witnesses. Could you blame jehova's witnesses for having your ass handed to you by a random stranger?

2 hours later 28004534 Anonymous
>>28004494 Great, make all the spoons you want, they're just not going to be made in their factories.

2 hours later 28004554 Anonymous
>>28004534 Naturally I would have my own factories with hired workers. Or am I not allowed to own property now or have contracts with other people?

2 hours later 28004603 Anonymous
>>28004494 First , I'm not a Comunist and never was a one, just defending simple concepts. Second, >Then stop buying those products. They only exist because people buy them. They exist because they obviously serve some portion of the population, even if they don't serve you. Do you know why people buy low quality products instead of high quality? Do you know why people buy CHEAP things, instead of EXPENSIVE things? That's right. Low-quality products are more PROFITABLE buying them, it's all about money, and I expect you to know that. Why would anyone buy a shitty 19" LCD TN Monitor when they can get an S-PVA with a lot of functions, better diameter and such. Profit and money, being the things that hold us back.

2 hours later 28004608 Anonymous
>>28004391 haha oh wow do people actually believe this

2 hours later 28004609 Anonymous
Jacque Fresco is my hero. Just woke up. Didn't read, but it looks like this thread is full of bakas. No surprises here.

2 hours later 28004626 Anonymous
>>28004554 You just can't use government resources on your frivolous projects. This includes electricity. You remember the whole "We built it" rally at the RNC, it's like that. Get your own power generators, money and resources and you can do anything within the zoning bylaws.

2 hours later 28004635 Anonymous
>>28004391 Sounds like communism with 70's version of future buildings

2 hours later 28004640 Anonymous
>>28004626 >Resources between concentrated in the hands of the few is awful, share with all! >Concentrate resources in the hands of a council to decide which projects are frivolous or otherwise lel

2 hours later 28004646 Anonymous
>>28002630 Plz donate $500,000 to P.O box fly by night vaporware. That old faggot is just trying to sell you dreams that'll never happen. Besides logans run shows us what happens when shit like this is done

2 hours later 28004670 Anonymous
>>28004603 >people trying to benefit themselves holds us back >no Communist state anywhere according to you, entire 20th century of advancement I'm ok with this.

2 hours later 28004717 Anonymous
>>28004504 No, but when ALL Jehova's witnesses have beaten the crap out of me, then I can make the reasonable statement that all Jehova's witnesses so far have been assholes.

2 hours later 28004727 Anonymous
>>28004640 You vote the people on councils, don't you? Democracy 101, the will of the people is reflected by their government's actions.

2 hours later 28004797 Anonymous
>>28004727 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_%28council%29#Russian_Revolution_of_1917 I'd much rather resources remain distributed, and therefore in private hands, than concentrated into the hands of a few stately elite.

2 hours later 28004828 Anonymous
>>28004727 >the will of some people is reflected by the government, onto everybody FTFY

2 hours later 28004835 Anonymous
>>28004640 ALL GLORY TO THE COUNCIL OF 9!

2 hours later 28004847 Anonymous
>>28004626 But there will be no money in the glorious venus future.

2 hours later 28004866 Anonymous
>>28004797 >Originally, the soviets were a grassroots effort to practice direct democracy. my sides

2 hours later 28004875 Anonymous
>>28004717 Not all communist governments have oppressed their people either. Pre-stalin russia didn't, the paris commune didn't, even Venuzuela doesn't nowadays. And even if they did, the ideology itself was not to be blamed, since there is nothing in the marxist guidelines that promotes the oppression of people, just like you can't blame Jesus for the later crimes of the catholic church. The same couldn't be said about fascism, for instance, given that it constitutionally strips civil rights from imigrants and declares them as non-citizens right off the bat.

2 hours later 28004897 Anonymous
>>28004875 >communist governments >implying there's such a thing

2 hours later 28004918 Anonymous
>cult I don't think you know what that word means. Not video games.

2 hours later 28004921 Anonymous
>>28004866 With village and factory soviets as a base, there arose a vast pyramid of district, cantonal, county and regional soviets, each with its executive soviet. Over and above these stood the “All-Russian Soviet Congress,” which appointed an “All-Russian Central Executive Committee” of not more than 200 members, which in turn chooses the “Soviet of People's Commissaries” — the Ministry. Beginning with a minimum of three and maximum of 50 members for smaller communities, the maximum for town soviets was fixed at 1,000 members. The soviet system was seen as an alternative to parliamentary systems for administering republican governments.

3 hours later 28004925 Anonymous
I like the idea of a Stackexchange style of government where the people most interested, contributive, and knowledgeable in their fields have more say. With the network, we no longer need a representative style government, we can represent ourselves.

3 hours later 28004989 Anonymous
>>28004897 communism isn't anti government it's anti capitalism, or more precisely private ownership of the land and labor.

3 hours later 28005029 Anonymous
>>28004989 keep your hands off my land and labour >>28004921 >there arose a vast pyramid astute choice of word

3 hours later 28005046 Anonymous
>>28005029 >thinks you can own land getaloadofthisguy.jpg

3 hours later 28005058 Anonymous
>>28003421 Yeah, that's not realistic or sustainable.

3 hours later 28005078 Anonymous
>>28004989 Communism shouldn't need government. The minute you have a "communist government", you've already failed. You're just another socialist douche.

3 hours later 28005080 Anonymous (1346148528248.jpg 776x602 100kB)
>>28005046 >thinks you can't own land How's life in the soviet union?

3 hours later 28005094 Anonymous
>>28005078 >no government anarchy isn't communism

3 hours later 28005113 Anonymous
>>28003467 Just plain wrong. Crime will never be eliminated so long as people still want things they cannot have. Talk about everyone having resources all you want, but there's more to human desires than ownership of goods.

3 hours later 28005120 Anonymous
>>28005094 No, but communism is anarchy. This "true communism" you people are crying about shouldn't need government. Marx didn't want it to have government because government fucks it up, like we saw in Russia.

3 hours later 28005292 Anonymous
>>28005120 >Marx didn't want it to have government because government fucks it up, like we saw in Russia. Don't talk about shit you don't know. Marx legitimizes government in a pre-communist state. A "true" communist state is indeed government-less, BUT that is only the very final stage of the implementation of communism. Before that, a government is necessary to make sure everything goes according to plan.

3 hours later 28005306 Anonymous
>>28005120 >communism is anarchy no, only the anarchist communist part which isn't all of communism

3 hours later 28005366 Anonymous
>>28003869 >because the first step toward such a society is to drop the concept of states and nations and nationality. We are all humans living on the same earth, there's no race and there's no prejudice, we will cooperate with each other under a unified "nation" (the earth) and administer all the earth's resources (plenty, far more than we'll ever need/want) with each other. That is so laughably naive and incorrect I'm not sure if it's funny or sad. There is no way in hell that all of the old grudges, old hatreds, will be forgotten easily enough for this to be possible. Look at the situation we have in places like Africa and the Middle East where nations were created in geographical locations that contained different tribes that don't like each other. Did any of these tribes unite with the other tribes that are now of the same nation and work together for their common good? No, they fought each other more. The whole world would not unite. It would tear itself apart.

3 hours later 28005459 Anonymous
tl;dr is a singularity era proposal, OP money is like slavery in the medieval times. eventually we'll get rid of this idiocy

3 hours later 28005498 Anonymous (1345096842503.jpg 184x184 8kB)
>>28005459 read: >>28003192

3 hours later 28005546 Anonymous
>>28005292 >>28005120 s/communism/marxism/g

3 hours later 28005552 Anonymous
They are not a cult. They are socialistic illusionists. Sure the concept sounds nice, sure it looks nice, fuck it ain't possible.

3 hours later 28005587 Anonymous
>>28005552 I don't think it sounds nice. It doesn't seems to respect the individual + I don't want to live in a prison.

3 hours later 28005679 Anonymous
Here's the deal with the Venus Project. An economy without money only works if scarcity is solved. These guys think they can just decide to end scarcity by ending a city? The end goal of technology and economics is to end scarcity. That's literally what everyone has been working on since the start of the industrial revolution. After a solid 200 years of work by the most brilliant scientists and engineers, this band of misfits just wants to suddenly end scarcity by building a weird looking city? That's like something a stoner would say while he's high. "Dude, wouldn't it... wait listen ... guys ... this is good huehueheu, what if, get this, what if we made it so there was so much stuff it was free" BRILLIANT, what didn't I think of that? Jesus fucking christ that movement pisses me off. I'm a physics grad student and I know how hard science is. We have already been trying to solve the problem they want to solve overnight for hundreds of years! We have been searching high and low for an abundant clean source of energy. We've been searching for better materials, better automation, quantum computers that would help manage this society they want to build. Scientist ARE the real venus project. We've already been working on it for hundreds of years. I'm sorry, it's not done yet, and it won't be for quite some time. You can't just declare us in post scarcity and build a city. But, they don't even do that, they make movies and post on message boards. While, I spend 12 hours a day in the lab doing actual shit to help contribute in my own small way. Fuck me. /rant

4 hours later 28006176 Anonymous (jew clapping.gif 501x585 11kB)
>criticize capitalism >get labeled as crazy

4 hours later 28006230 Anonymous
>>28005679 I feel with you, bro. EE student here.

4 hours later 28006249 Anonymous (pawn-stars-austin-russell_475x240.jpg 475x240 20kB)
>>28005679 >implying fusion is not the answer to everything and has been for 50 years >mfw oil companies are suppressing it

4 hours later 28006416 Anonymous
>>28006249 They're actually building a reactor in France that has the theoretical chance of producing more energy than it needs for running. Saying the oil companies have hindered that progress is stupid though. Those companies know well enough that oil is going to dry up sometime, so some of them start investing in other energy sources as well.

4 hours later 28006448 Anonymous
>>28006416 >They're actually building a reactor in France that has the theoretical chance of producing more energy than it needs for running. >creates more energy than it consumes That would mean it literally breaks all known laws of physics as we understand energy and matter and power generation to function so, no, I don't believe it or you for a picosecond.

4 hours later 28006463 Anonymous
>>28006416 l2physic it's simple IMPOSSIBLE

4 hours later 28006470 Steve Ballmer
>>28003297 Bah, my B.A.N.K. is innovative and changes everything.

4 hours later 28006512 Anonymous
>>28006448 >>28006463 This is the reactor >>28006416 is talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

4 hours later 28006530 Anonymous (5131642351_a87e0311d9.jpg 322x500 161kB)
>>28006416 French people are to stupid for this. They only think of themselves as superior and I can tell as living on the french border: their phone lines look kinda like this and their streets are horrible to drive on

4 hours later 28006531 Anonymous
>>28006512 >>28006416 >The ITER fusion reactor itself has been designed to produce 500 megawatts of output power for 50 megawatts of input power, or ten times the amount of energy put in. The machine is expected to demonstrate the principle of producing more energy from the fusion process than is used to initiate it You're confusing "keep it running" with "initiate it"

4 hours later 28006554 Anonymous (buttdevistated.gif 319x264 2093kB)
>>28005679 >We have been searching high and low for an abundant clean source of energy. >tfw we will never live on a Dyson ring around the sun

4 hours later 28006575 Anonymous (ddddoctor.gif 500x263 507kB)
>>28006176 >get criticized as being uneducated and naive >call all opposition "Jews"

4 hours later 28006597 Pretendema
:o

4 hours later 28006609 Anonymous
These threads don't work on /g/ because the only thing /g/ knows about the world is what their dad told them, and what America pumps into their brain about the American dream. Those that actually do understand it will hate it because it means they can't buy a new battlestation every year.

4 hours later 28006629 Anonymous
>>28006575 Name one influential economist in the Chicago or Austrian School who isn't jewish.

4 hours later 28006637 Anonymous
>>28006609 >"people who don't agree are just brainwashed zombies" Am I reading you correctly?

4 hours later 28006659 Anonymous
>>28006637 pretty much it's true

4 hours later 28006662 Anonymous
>>28006637 No, they're not all brainwashed zombies, most are just greedy and don't give a shit about anyone or anything else as long as they have what they want.

4 hours later 28006678 Anonymous
>>28006629 >influential >economist >tell rich people whatever they want to believe >justify whatever they want to do >hurr durr i'm an influential economist now

5 hours later 28006695 Anonymous
>>28006662 So they're either brainwashed zombies, or malicious psychopaths?

5 hours later 28006718 Anonymous
>>28006695 Yeah, that's humanity for you. Those same reasons are why communism and capitalism don't work as well.

5 hours later 28006789 Anonymous
>>28006695 I wish I could just paint all my political opponents as being either evil or stupid. That would make ignoring all the problems of holding Utopian ideals much easier :(.

5 hours later 28006895 Anonymous
i do not completely agree with this project but that is what we should work for, a society without a money without interest rates. with interest rates, you will always have the situation we have now, rich people becoming richer and ultimativly control the country for they controll all the goods. if you are not in the club, you will become a working slave for them. shitty education ("educating" what the rich people want you to "know"), poor working conditions, bad sallary (there is always someone ready to take your job, you know?), poor healthcare (you know, the state can´t pay for it, it is deeply in debts, has to pay your taxes to the banks, and there is always a new war coming up, increasing this debt, etc, you name it. at least these guys are trying to show a different path. i don´t really get all the hate. oh, and this comes not from a poorfag.

5 hours later 28006921 Anonymous
>>28006895 /g/ still believes in the american dream, and fixing peoples computers is the way to achieve it

5 hours later 28007559 Anonymous
>>28006678 Why do only jews do it then?

5 hours later 28007641 Anonymous
>>28006789 That's how politics works. It's also why scientists, engineers, and pragmatists in general hate politics.

7 hours later 28009449 Anonymous
>>28006895 It's not hatred, it's the fact that they don't live according to their own principles and their excuse is "well, the world needs to convert to our way of thinking for it to work." Again, if it doesn't work in the small scale, and it doesn't work in a simulation, then why would it work on a grand scale?

7 hours later 28009640 Anonymous
>>28002630 /pol/ pls go

7 hours later 28009676 Anonymous
Money exists because of how stupid a resource based economy was. You have potatoes and want apples, but the guy with the apples doesn't want your potatoes. See the problem here? Yeah, money solves that problem.

8 hours later 28009821 Anonymous
>>28009640 Nope. It's technology, you silly /g/oose. The Venus Project is about believing that technology will solve all their problems. Technology they don't understand. >ALL GLORY TO THE MAINFRAME!

8 hours later 28009838 Anonymous
>>28009676 No, we need the world's largest excel sheet to calculate everything and resource manage the world as if it were Starcraft.

8 hours later 28009853 Anonymous
>>28003127 It's mainly due to birth control.

8 hours later 28009933 Anonymous
>>28005679 But, but, but the supercomputer and the robots will build and mine and cook for us, right? The Venus Project wouldn't make shit up to try and sell us tours, DVDs, and books, right? Also, considering Disney is in nearby Orlando, I wouldn't go on a tour in his shitty dome of 70s future for $200

8 hours later 28010214 Anonymous
>>28009933 What if the supercomputer goes cray-cray?

9 hours later 28011458 Anonymous
>>28009449 are you referring to the fact that they demand money and do not accept goods as a payment? then this is very weak critisism. the system they want to achieve is not there at the moment. so if you want to have a functioning organisation, you have to play by the rules of the current system. and nothing can be done without money at the moment, simple as that. they have to pay bills. i am not saying i love this organisation or anything, but the main criticism itt is intellectually very weak

9 hours later 28011513 Anonymous
>>28011458 They could have done some resource planning instead of going "gif money, plox."

9 hours later 28011548 Anonymous
>>28002630 >The Venus Project is a cult that wants to get rid of money and have a resource economy instead. >get rid of money >have a resource economy They do realize money is a proxy for resource trading, right?

9 hours later 28011552 Anonymous
>>28011513 However...people as slick as OP wouldn't buy Jacque Fresco's bullshit anyway.

9 hours later 28011570 Anonymous
>still talking about the Venus Project babby's first Zeitgeist film?

9 hours later 28011572 Anonymous
>>28003127 It's a self-reinforcing trend: when women are allowed to be taken off the animal cycle of birth-pregnancy-birth, suddenly things get better, more resources are available per-family, schools get manageable, village health increases. The problem is that most aid organizations are religious in nature, and tend to condemn the use of birth-control.

9 hours later 28011602 Anonymous
The venus project is alright, though I don't support their whole plan, just the resource things and some other aspects. Still, I'm pretty sure OPs story is fabricated.

9 hours later 28011709 Anonymous
>>28011548 >They do realize money is a proxy for resource trading, right? They probably do. Do you ralize that fractional reserve banking IS a cancer and will destroy us all, regardless of zeitgeist movies? >loan money >demand interest >b-but if the money you loaned me is a part of a zero sum system, where every penny you loan is actually removed from the actual real money pool, then paying interest would mean I would have to come up with money that does not exist in the real actual money pool >...and you say if I can't do that you will take the things I've built with the money you loaned me? etc. >conjure up money >create more debt than there is real money >force people to take more conjured loans because of that >someone in the chain WILL fail to pay back >grab all their assets >banks now have real property for the price of virtual money >le happy merchants.

9 hours later 28011748 Anonymous
>>28011709 >Do you ralize that fractional reserve banking IS a cancer and will destroy us all, regardless of zeitgeist movies? You don't need to say "fuck it I'm trading chickens" to advocate moving away from that, though.

9 hours later 28011911 Anonymous
>>28011709 >conjure up money >create more debt than there is real money >force people to take more conjured loans because of that >someone in the chain WILL fail to pay back >grab all their assets >banks now have real property for the price of virtual money >le happy merchants. Do you have a source that explains this clearly?

9 hours later 28012021 Anonymous
>>28011911 if you don't mind botnet tube links: Khan Academy link, you might want to browse the other links, this seems to be a multi part video. http://youtu.be/nH2-37rTA8U A cartoon that explains it nicely while staying 'neutral' (apart from being against the system) and only talks about how it works and why it's bad http://youtu.be/3HdmA3vPbSU A cartoon that does the same thing but is a lot flashier and stuff, also bashing rotschild etc. Still, it's accurate and covers more topics than the previous one. http://youtu.be/tGk5ioEXlIM

9 hours later 28012035 Anonymous
>>28011911 google fiat money then look at what is happening in greece at the moment. banks from all over the world buying real assets in greece. there you go, this is not the crisis the mass media is telling you, it is a very effective way of exchanging money created out of air into real assets like houses, production facilities, etc. this is what will happen when people ultimately run out of money, they sell their shit. and the banks are happy to give you a good price for your real assets. that is the future guys. well no, actually it is the present. there are your answers

9 hours later 28012055 Anonymous
>>28012021 >also bashing rotschild etc. by the way. that's a good thing. but they do it in a kinda over the top way, like ooh evil evil evillll EVILL. which they are... even more so than the video suggests but you know?

9 hours later 28012095 Anonymous (1348204475431.jpg 450x677 164kB)
>>28002957 It looks like the shitty set from the shitty liveaction Aeon Flux adaptation

9 hours later 28012150 Anonymous
Also it looks like any given set for the Planet of the Week on a Star Trek TNG episode.

10 hours later 28012184 Anonymous
this is retarded, and will fail just as pseudo communism social capitalism is the only way, don't you niggas get it?

10 hours later 28012260 Anonymous
>>28012184 Babyboomers keep refusing to fucking die and are spending all our social security on communes. Fuck just line them up and shoot them, its not like they're WWII vets and deserve to live out their lives to the end.

10 hours later 28012741 Anonymous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjIoHgUFZFQ This guy is the embodiment of an old boomer hippy who never got his over-crafts and moon-colonies the government promised him. Also, he starts re-educating people starting with the tour. He runs an efficient cult.

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